What ? Gavelking succession will REVOKE titles from vassals to be granted to my sons ?

[LFA]

So I was playing with Harald Fairhair. Died as King of Denmark, owning 4 counties +1 duchy (entire duchy of Vikin, plus another county somewhere in Norway).
3 Sons, all unlanded, and surprisingly after Harald died I noticed I haven't lost any of my counties
Instead my youngers sons have inherited titles I DIDN'T EVEN OWN. Stolen right from my vassals
They each "inherited" (stolen) one county in Denmark (+ the corresponding duchy being created on succession, respectively Skane and Sjaelland)
Looking at the county title history says "revoked" when it passed down.

What the hell ?
Did some update do this to facilitate Gavelkind succession or is this a bug ?
I can understand that some people can find Gavelkind succession frustrating, but this is seriously ridiculous.
They should have worked on improving the mecanic, maybe allowing to plan out a testament or something, not this.
Planning out the expansion of the familly based on how much prospect of land expansion you have as always been a key aspect of playing under gavelind.

If that's how it's going to be I think I might just return to playing CK2.
Quite frankly to be honest I don't really like most of the changes (if any at all) they've made going into CK3.
I can understand trying to streamline the game and making it more accessible to some extent, but this is getting ridiculous. The game has clearly been dumbed down.

[NewbieOne]

Yes, Partition succession revokes titles from vassals if the non-primary heir can't inherit a county from you.

[TheDogeOfSwabia]

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Succession
Read it - understand it - learn it
Everyday the same

[LFA]

Originally posted by Stevo:

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Succession
Read it - understand it - learn it
Everyday the same

My children inheriting titles I don't own ?
Yeah no sorry but I don't really understand that, do you ?
I think that's going to be an uninstall for now.

[TheDogeOfSwabia]

Originally posted by LFA:

Originally posted by Stevo:

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Succession
Read it - understand it - learn it
Everyday the same

My children inheriting titles I don't own ?
Yeah no sorry but I don't really understand that, do you ?
I think that's going to be an uninstall for now.

cya

[M82]

Game hasn't been "dumbed" down, you just couldn't bother looking at what succession type you're currently using.

Partition succession is litteraly the old Frankish way of succession, spreading out the titles to equal values amongst the successors.

I mean if you can't bother even looking at what government mechanics you're abiding to then I don't think this game is for you friend. Wise decision you made to uninstall.

[LFA]

Originally posted by M82:

Game hasn't been "dumbed" down, you just couldn't bother looking at what succession type you're currently using.

Partition succession is litteraly the old Frankish way of succession, spreading out the titles to equal values amongst the successors.

I mean if you can't bother even looking at what government mechanics you're abiding to then I don't think this game is for you friend. Wise decision you made to uninstall.

Now you're just being petty, like the guy above you.
I've purchased this game at launch and prior to that I have over 1500h on counter on CK2 so trust me, I know how to manage my succesion.
The fact is gavelkind succession didn't work that way when CK3 was launched and it didn't allow your children to inherit titles you didn't own, by stealing them from the vassals. I am PRETTY SURE this is not "litteraly the old Frankish way of succession"

This is clearly dumb, no way to deny it, ans was made in an attempt to make the game more manageable to new comers, even if that ends up removing most of the challenge.
Now sure Gavelkind, (or confederate partition as its called now, sure) could be frustrating at times and surely there was other ways to make it more manageable without making it stupid broken like this.
I'm sorry bro but this is clearly a dumbing down, you don't have to admit it, but I'm pretty sure you know it

[TheDogeOfSwabia]

Originally posted by LFA:

Originally posted by M82:

Game hasn't been "dumbed" down, you just couldn't bother looking at what succession type you're currently using.

Partition succession is litteraly the old Frankish way of succession, spreading out the titles to equal values amongst the successors.

I mean if you can't bother even looking at what government mechanics you're abiding to then I don't think this game is for you friend. Wise decision you made to uninstall.

Now you're just being petty, like the guy above you.
I've purchased this game at launch and prior to that I have over 1500h on counter on CK2 so trust me, I know how to manage my succesion.
The fact is gavelkind succession didn't work that way when CK3 was launched and it didn't allow your children to inherit titles you didn't own, by stealing them from the vassals. I am PRETTY SURE this is not "litteraly the old Frankish way of succession"

This is clearly dumb, no way to deny it, ans was made in an attempt to make the game more manageable to new comers, even if that ends up removing most of the challenge.
Now sure Gavelkind, (or confederate partition as its called now, sure) could be frustrating at times and surely there was other ways to make it more manageable without making it stupid broken like this.
I'm sorry bro but this is clearly a dumbing down, you don't have to admit it, but I'm pretty sure you know it

I play since launch and the concept of the different succession types didnt change since launch.
CK3 released in septemer 2020...here is a video from 9 days after launch..it is still the same, you clearly DONT KNOW how to manage your succession.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WozHE79AZV0&t=7s

[LFA]

Originally posted by Stevo:

Originally posted by LFA:

Now you're just being petty, like the guy above you.
I've purchased this game at launch and prior to that I have over 1500h on counter on CK2 so trust me, I know how to manage my succesion.
The fact is gavelkind succession didn't work that way when CK3 was launched and it didn't allow your children to inherit titles you didn't own, by stealing them from the vassals. I am PRETTY SURE this is not "litteraly the old Frankish way of succession"

This is clearly dumb, no way to deny it, ans was made in an attempt to make the game more manageable to new comers, even if that ends up removing most of the challenge.
Now sure Gavelkind, (or confederate partition as its called now, sure) could be frustrating at times and surely there was other ways to make it more manageable without making it stupid broken like this.
I'm sorry bro but this is clearly a dumbing down, you don't have to admit it, but I'm pretty sure you know it

I play since launch and the concept of the different succession types didnt change since launch.
CK3 released in septemer 2020...here is a video from 9 days after launch..it is still the same, you clearly DONT KNOW how to manage your succession.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WozHE79AZV0&t=7s

The functionning explained in this video is absolutely not what I describe in my opening post.
Are you trolling or something ?

It used to be (as is explained in your video) that is you had no other duchy to be shared to your younger sons, they would inherit countries inside of your primary duchy.
Now it seems the game system wants to preserve your main duchy intact no matter what. and will remove titles from your vassals instead so that your children inherit something.
This is obviously not historically accurate, removes all the challenge of partition succession and it's basically the game breaking it's own rules by removing titles from third party characters without any kind of compensation or any involvment what so ever in the succession.
It just makes no sense.

[Dace]

Ummmm no .... not an update. Not a bug and yes, I understand it. This is how things have worked since launch. Titles get auto created if you have enough de jure land for that title. That's how it worked at launch. Maybe you missed it or maybe you didn't have enough de jure land at launch for it to trigger but this is how the game has worked since launch. Nothing has changed. Additionally, I would hardly consider this to be dumbed down. Folks seem to toss "dumbed down" around instead of investing the time to learn the system and how it works.

For instance, this is just one of many options for inheritance. As you progress throughout the game and your culture grows you will gain access to different forms of inheritance. This means that you are incentivived to see that your culture is strong and spreading if you want to change the succession laws.

Plus, this new system can work to your benefit. You could spend time and money creating a new duchy. Ooooorrrrrrr your second son can inherent the land and the new duchy title gets auto created for you. Sure this means that you lose the land ..... but it's not like getting it back is hard. All you have to do is declare war on your, now, brother and take the lands away from him and you saved yourself 250 gold in the process. Gold that could have been used waging another war or improving the lands you own.

Also, that tends to happen if you don't take the time to personally handle succession issues. You can still grant your children land, though if you give them titles equal to yours they do become independent. You can also disinherit children if you want to keep your lands more consolidated, plot to kill your children if you have one too many, or have them join the clergy. You still very much plan things out.

It also helps out your dynasty in the long run. You gain more renown for having high ranking members in your house. So if upon the death of one character your sons are all turned into dukes those additional dukes are generating more renown for your dynasty than they would had those titles not been created for you.

Now, I get if you simply like CK2 better, to each their own. But the things you think you can no longer do are things you can still do. You are actually able to do more. Plus if you are not a fan of this form of succession then you can push the growth of your culture so that you can advance to the other forms of succession in the game, There's like six of them I think. Thus based on all that you have to do I would hardly consider this to be "dumbed down." Different, yes but not dumbed down. You actually need to pay more attention to what you are doing, to be frank.

[Majora]

I agree with OP it just is unrealistic and not how historical succession worked. partition didnt just automatically steal land from your vassals and give it to the other sons of the liege.

it makes no sense and breaks immersion. unrealistic

[Thor's Wrath]

Originally posted by Dace:

Ummmm no .... not an update. Not a bug and yes, I understand it. This is how things have worked since launch. Titles get auto created if you have enough de jure land for that title.

But that's not what OP is talking about tho. OP is talking about county titles being revoked from your vassals and passed down to your children instead of the children inheriting some of your existing counties outside of your main duchy. I haven't seen it happen myself, but if this is a feature and not a big, it's pretty dumb.

[mattosika]

Always funny when people mistakenly think your vassals "own" any of their titles. They don't. Their land is your land. They are just stewards of it. As to "that's not how history worked!!!!1111!1!!" crowd our history in this period isn't really all that reliable to begin with so that's a rather hard argument to back up considering how convoluted history is on the topic.

[Cry Me A Salt River]

If your secondary heirs stand to inherit some of your duchies you already own and you yourself don't hold any counties of said duchies, the game will "force-give" them 1 county of said duchies (as per game rules, correct me if I'm wrong, a duke/king can't be in no posesion of no land so he has to hold at least 1 county). So if you have counties in the aforementioned duchies, they will inherit those (at least 1) alongside them. If you don't however, then they will "take" 1 from your vassals (randomly or the duchy capital???).

So imagine this: you have titles of kingdom of England, duchy of Essex with it's county of Lunden and the duchies of Mercia and Kent. You have 3 heirs. The primary heir will inherit the kingdom title, the main duchy of the kingdom title and the de jure county of the kingdom. All what is left for your other 2 heirs are the 2 duchy titles with no counties under them. The game has to assign them counties for them to be "properly landed"... even at the expense of some of your vassals.

I'm not entirely sure it was always the case or if it was introduced in some of the patches. I would wildly guess that it could have been introduced as one of the changes in the North Korea strategy patch if it wasn't already present in the game before.

[Average AMD neanderthal]

if these lands were 'stolen' because you owned more than 50% of a duchy, then it makes sense. because under confederate partition specifically, if you have the ability to make a title then the game will do so upon your death. to ensure the succession is as equal as possible, and to keep the 'tribe' together. which isn't that odd. you are more of a duke of said region anyway. since you are in charge of the realm and own more land in said duchy.

[LFA]

Originally posted by Chuck Norris:

If your secondary heirs stand to inherit some of your duchies you already own and you yourself don't hold any counties of said duchies, the game will "force-give" them 1 county of said duchies (as per game rules, correct me if I'm wrong, a duke/king can't be in no posesion of no land so he has to hold at least 1 county). So if you have counties in the aforementioned duchies, they will inherit those (at least 1) alongside them. If you don't however, then they will "take" 1 from your vassals (randomly or the duchy capital???).

So imagine this: you have titles of kingdom of England, duchy of Essex with it's county of Lunden and the duchies of Mercia and Kent. You have 3 heirs. The primary heir will inherit the kingdom title, the main duchy of the kingdom title and the de jure county of the kingdom. All what is left for your other 2 heirs are the 2 duchy titles with no counties under them. The game has to assign them counties for them to be "properly landed"... even at the expense of some of your vassals.

I'm not entirely sure it was always the case or if it was introduced in some of the patches. I would wildly guess that it could have been introduced as one of the changes in the North Korea strategy patch if it wasn't already present in the game before.

The video posted earlier on this thread 100% confirms that this is not how it worked back in Septembre when the game was launched.
Back then it worked basically like in CK2: if you don't have any duchy-tier titles other than your primary, your cadet children will inherit ALL your county tier titles inside your only duchy except your capital.

The way it works now makes it so your main duchy titles and your possessions inside of it are protected no matter what and if you don't have lands to distribute outside of it, the game will automatically take one county per children to vassals inside an uncreated duchy and give the county and the duchy title to the son in order to "even out" the succession.

It's pretty to understand the motive behind this new mechanic, as partition succession if you couldn't handle it well could often screw up your realm (which is pretty historically accurate btw)
So this change has probably been made in order to protect newbies from this and avoid any kind of frustration. Even though it makes no sense what so ever.
Honestly this is very disapointing, and I don't like this at all.