Confederate Partition vs. Partition

[The Boominator]

The differences between these two seems marginal. As I can figure it, the only difference is that a partition will not divide your realm capital's duchy and will not create new titles. So, for example, a duke with two duchies and two heirs will not become two flags upon death so long as the second duchy title is not created.
This makes forming a new empire prohibitively difficult, though not impossible, until single heir succession laws appear. Am I overlooking something about the difference these laws, or is it really a minor step up?

[Viktor Von Groyper]

Ive tried to explain this elsewhere. Dont create duchies until you have to. Ive lucked out an my last two games had cultural bonuses so I could do high right away so havent had to deal with it in a while. But IIRC, partition will still create titles. Confed will hand out ALL your titles while Partition just wants to make them "equal". So if son 2 gets a duchy, son 3 would would need 2-3 counties.

Regardless, if you have heirs who will inherit, its better to dole out titles before hand. You game some of the mechanic.

The best tactic is to give counties in duchies you will lose to someone who is already core vassal. Or just hand them out so the heirs have nothing to inherit. People try and hold on to too much.

[The Boominator]

Originally posted by Viktor Von Groyper:

Ive tried to explain this elsewhere. Dont create duchies until you have to. Ive lucked out an my last two games had cultural bonuses so I could do high right away so havent had to deal with it in a while. But IIRC, partition will still create titles. Confed will hand out ALL your titles while Partition just wants to make them "equal". So if son 2 gets a duchy, son 3 would would need 2-3 counties.

Regardless, if you have heirs who will inherit, its better to dole out titles before hand. You game some of the mechanic.

The best tactic is to give counties in duchies you will lose to someone who is already core vassal. Or just hand them out so the heirs have nothing to inherit. People try and hold on to too much.

In my experience, it does not seem that the partition creates titles, but I may be failing to observe some minor nuance (for instance, I know partitions do not usurp titles that already exist). My main gripe, as I was alluding in the main post, is how difficult it is to form new empires. Outside of Scandinavia, thanks to its strong CBs and potentially elective kingdoms, it is very difficult to retain multiple kingdom titles without risky succession strategies.

[Viktor Von Groyper]

Originally posted by The Boominator:

Originally posted by Viktor Von Groyper:

Ive tried to explain this elsewhere. Dont create duchies until you have to. Ive lucked out an my last two games had cultural bonuses so I could do high right away so havent had to deal with it in a while. But IIRC, partition will still create titles. Confed will hand out ALL your titles while Partition just wants to make them "equal". So if son 2 gets a duchy, son 3 would would need 2-3 counties.

Regardless, if you have heirs who will inherit, its better to dole out titles before hand. You game some of the mechanic.

The best tactic is to give counties in duchies you will lose to someone who is already core vassal. Or just hand them out so the heirs have nothing to inherit. People try and hold on to too much.

In my experience, it does not seem that the partition creates titles, but I may be failing to observe some minor nuance (for instance, I know partitions do not usurp titles that already exist). My main gripe, as I was alluding in the main post, is how difficult it is to form new empires. Outside of Scandinavia, thanks to its strong CBs and potentially elective kingdoms, it is very difficult to retain multiple kingdom titles without risky succession strategies.

Ive gotten to where I avoid creating custom empires because it just causes issues at some point when you/or someone else have enough territory for vanilla empires.

Unless you are at a vassal limit you can get around some of that by just messing with vassals so no territory actual belongs to X kingdom. You dont really need multiple king titles. Just hand it out some weak count and he wont have any vassals. Like 9/10 in my games the kingdom of bavaria is some random karling with one county in poland

[CrUsHeR]

Confederate Partition:

If your realm has enough land to create title(s) of the same rank as your highest title, then such titles will be created on succession, and the respective heir becomes independent from the primary heir.
The primary heir gets a claim on each lost top title.


Partition:

No titles will be created.

[garthurbrown]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Confederate Partition:

If your realm has enough land to create title(s) of the same rank as your highest title, then such titles will be created on succession, and the respective heir becomes independent from the primary heir.
The primary heir gets a claim on each lost top title.


Partition:

No titles will be created.

THIS^

[Rialm]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

If your realm has enough land to create title(s) of the same rank as your highest title, then such titles will be created on succession, and the respective heir becomes independent from the primary heir.

Basically confederate partition is really stupid, because If I'm not mistaken if the heirs don't have money to pay for those titles, the game create them for them for free? really dumb,
That's why you have to get out of confederate partition fast. Now it's a bit more difficult to not create titles because your vassals will create factions just because you are not their rightful liege. so basically, the game is screwing you with confederate partition and vasssals getting angry just because you don't have the title, both things makes no sense.

For the second point, it would be much better that depending the vassal's opinion of you and others factors, if you are not the rightful liege but it's another one then in that case the vassal will try to break out from your realm, or at least in that case force you to get that title because it's tire to deal with someone else.

[dwarfpcfan]

On one the most initially pleasant runs I had which was a run as Prussia where I formed the kingdom of Lithuania. I only survived the dreadful partition rules because I lucked out and my wife only gave me 1 son, and then it was all daughters, one after the other.

Not sure what the statistical probability of this was but I had 1 son and 5 daughters when my first ruler died. Given I hadn't reformed any gender laws, and the rest of the titles were vassals.

My son ended up getting everything and kept the kingdom together. All the daughters were either married off to vassals or neighbor realms.

Then things went to hell when this son died, because his son was dog poo and everyone else hated him so the realm exploded into civil war

[The Boominator]

For what it's worth, learning rulers can choose to be celibate. So you can have kids until you get a son, and then just stop.

[Juicy Beefcake]

The difference is marginal. The main drawback to confederate is that you cant hoard unclaimed titles for prestige boosting your successor. Confederate will parcel out those titles to your extra heirs. So lets say you are king of England and you own enough of Ireland to create the kingdom level title. You are too old to make use of the prestige reward for creating the title so you are going to hold it for your successor to use.
Confederate partition will ruin this plan, as it will create the kingdom title and give it to an extra heir. It will create as many titles of as high a level as possible to satisfy all viable heirs. Any available titles at the same level as your primary title will be split off into new independent nations.
Regular partition will preserve all unclaimed titles you have access to, allowing you to hold your extra kingdom titles in limbo until you have the resources to found an empire.

[CrUsHeR]

That's why you have to get out of confederate partition fast.

Basically yes, but there mostly is no quick way out in the 867 start date, certainly not if you start tribal.

Usually you can plan this strategically, so you primarily expand into territory which does not allow new kingdoms. Occasionally a kingdom may be formed, but you can easily take it back.
Then once you can form an empire, it becomes very relaxed with no real difference to regular partition. Not until you have enough territory for another empire.

Of course this depends a lot on your location; for example Ayuraan is a very tiny empire with only 2 kingdoms, while Tibet is absolutely massive with 9 kingdoms.

[dwarfpcfan]

Originally posted by The Boominator:

For what it's worth, learning rulers can choose to be celibate. So you can have kids until you get a son, and then just stop.

Oh I know, after too many attempts at getting good heirs and the like. Now, whenever I make a custom ruler, I always put him on the learning tree and use the celibacy option as soon as I have a son.

[Shadow Lord]

well there is really simple solutions to all this about your kingdom splitting after your ruler dies or if your in early game with confederate partitioning etc and here is what you can do.

-don't get married until you are near death but enough time for 1 kid to become a adult or close to a adult and you do this by going into the left side of the learning tree and get Celibate, so after you know you only have 10-20 years left get married and have a kid and as soon as you get your heir use celibate to stop having kids and then all title go to your heir etc.

-save scum it, as in if you want to get married and your wife gets a kid and its male etc then reload a back up save and then go through the events and roll for a girl etc. (it's not fair but sometimes you want to play the way you want to play, also why can't a king decide who gets there throne after his death but actually has to listen to a law? they don't care for, just very weird lol)

-Go Learning and get celibate 1st b4 getting married to control birth (also if you want that perfect child again save scum it, as soon as the game says your wife is with child save that game and back it up and if you don't like the stats etc then re roll, again not fair but why can't a king get to decide who can inherit when he rules the lands lol.

[Shadow Lord]

all in all saveing the game and loading a backup is the way to go if you want to really decide who gets your Land after death and it may not be intended by the devs for doing this but again it makes no sense from a Rulers standpoint to be forced to give his/her land to someone he doesn't want to when they are the Ruler, when the Ruler is alive they Rule with an Iron Fist and any that oppose are smashed under it b4 they go under. My Ruling Motto

[Сааребас]

Originally posted by Bloodthirsty07:

all in all saveing the game and loading a backup is the way to go if you want to really decide who gets your Land after death and it may not be intended by the devs for doing this but again it makes no sense from a Rulers standpoint to be forced to give his/her land to someone he doesn't want to when they are the Ruler, when the Ruler is alive they Rule with an Iron Fist and any that oppose are smashed under it b4 they go under. My Ruling Motto

Are you saying, that if you have multiple kids, who you love equaly, you would give it all to just one kid?

[The Former]

Originally posted by Silver Shroud:

Originally posted by Bloodthirsty07:

all in all saveing the game and loading a backup is the way to go if you want to really decide who gets your Land after death and it may not be intended by the devs for doing this but again it makes no sense from a Rulers standpoint to be forced to give his/her land to someone he doesn't want to when they are the Ruler, when the Ruler is alive they Rule with an Iron Fist and any that oppose are smashed under it b4 they go under. My Ruling Motto

Are you saying, that if you have multiple kids, who you love equaly, you would give it all to just one kid?

"What are you on? This is the middle ages, no one loved their kids back then." - Everyone who's ever watched Game of Thrones and attributed it to history.

The irony is that even Cersei Lannister loved her kids.