Court physician doesn't cure sickly child?

[MASTER-DINDON]

Hello.

My child is sickly and my court physician is not doing anything. Is there a reason?
My child is in my court.

Thanks for helping :)

[Snowieken]

"Sickly" is not a trait that can be cured, like "Ill". It basically means your child has been born with a weak constitution. Basically, there's two chances: the trait will be gone by the time the child is 3 or 4 years old, or the child will die.

Mostly, for me, it turns out that the trait just goes away after a few years - it might be related to having a good court physician, but I think it's passive.

Let's hope the RNG gods are with you.

[MASTER-DINDON]

Ah ok! in the wiki it was "curable" so i was thinking my court physician could do something, but it is curable with time then, like in real life.

May god have mercy then !

Thank you friend :)

[Snowieken]

Don't know if you got my edit in time, but I do think your physician's skill matters.

If the trait goes away, there's an event when the child is 3-4 years old, indicating he/she is healthy again.

[Wolfsun]

Historically medieval physicians killed more people than they helped. Based on that assumption I have chosen to never hire one in CK3.

Not having one, having one, doesn't seem to make any difference in survival rates whether you have one or not.

Who knows - maybe I've just gotten lucky or my bias against court physicians has colored my perception. Or maybe not having one of those butchers around really does make a difference.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

[[MwaH] NeoStarr]

Originally posted by Wolfsun:

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

You must go through knights like crazy. Have you never encountered a plague?

[Wolfsun]

Originally posted by MwaH NeoStarr:

Originally posted by Wolfsun:

That's my story and I'm sticking to it...

You must go through knights like crazy. Have you never encountered a plague?

Never lost a single knight to disease. Lose 'em in battle but not to disease.

I do recall experiencing a plague once and I believe my character lost his wife and one son.

I recall having lost a sickly daughter once - she went through a getting better event and then a year or two later died - she was 4 or 5 IIRC. That's about it.

My characters have always recovered from wounds and what I imagine is the flu or pneumonia events - even when they're older than GOD - i.e. real old.

I've lost one character in battle, I think and I believe a character died in personal combat once.

Like I said - either I have been very lucky so far (always possible) or paradox is treating court physicians historically and doing it in ways that make players believe the court physician provide a benefit which people actually believed they did back then. Paradox making court physicians actually providing a net positive effect on health would be extremely ahistorical but would I suppose be a useful gameplay feature, not for me, but for most players.

...that's my story and I'm sticking to it...

[brownacs]

Originally posted by Wolfsun:

Not having one, having one, doesn't seem to make any difference in survival rates whether you have one or not.

I'm pretty confident that it does if you get a competent one. Especially if you get the 'anatomical studies' skill from the 'whole of body' learning lifestyle tree for +50% treatment success chance.

[MrFurious26]

Originally posted by brownacs:

Originally posted by Wolfsun:

Not having one, having one, doesn't seem to make any difference in survival rates whether you have one or not.

I'm pretty confident that it does if you get a competent one. Especially if you get the 'anatomical studies' skill from the 'whole of body' learning lifestyle tree for +50% treatment success chance.

As am I. You can find the factors by which treatment is improved in common\script_values\10_health_values.txt.

Karlington made a nice breakdown on the PI forums:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/court-physician-what-makes-a-person-good-at-the-job.1422477/

Originally posted by Karlington:

"The basis for determining how good a physician is is the physician base skill factor. I'll refer to it as PBSF below.

PBSF equals Learning divided by 8. So Learning 8 gives PBSF 1, 12 gives 1.5, 16 gives 2, and so on.

However, if Learning is 15 or higher the total gets multiplied by 1.3. So let's say a character has Learning 16:

16 / 8 = 2 PBSF
But since 16 is high enough to get the 1.3 multiplication, PBSF ends up being
2 * 1.3 = 2.6

(See physician_base_skill_factor in common\script_values\10_health_values.txt for the script.)



For safe treatment this is then multiplied if the physician has either Physician or Mystic traits. The Physician traits are (with multipliers in parenthesis):

1. Novice Physician (1.5)
2. Physician (2)
3. Renowned Physician (4)

The Mystic traits are:

1. Wise (Wo)Man (1.2)
2. Mystic (1.5)
3. Miracle Worker (2)

EDIT: Herbalist has a multiplier of 1.5

The PBSF is multiplied by the best modifier the character has. They do not stack even if the character has several of the traits.

So, for example, if our Learning 16 example from above, with his 2.6 PBSF, had the Physician trait with a multiplier of 2, his safe treatment skill factor would be 2.6 * 2 = 5.2

In addition to all this, if the liege lord has the Anatomical Studies perk from the Learning skill trees, this figure is doubled. So with 5.2 * 2 we'd end up at 10.4

(Check physician_safe_treatment_skill_factor in common\script_values\10_health_values.txt for script.)


When safe treatment is administered the base numbers are 70% chance of success and 30% chance of failure. The 70 is multiplied by the safe treatment score we got from above. As you can see, the traits and the perk make a tremendous difference there - what started out as a decent 2.6 turned into 5.2 with a trait and then 10.4 with the perk on top of that. :)

One thing to watch out for is that sometimes a physician can deliberately mistreat you. In that case the 70/30 success/fail turns into 70/30/70 success/fail/intentional mistreatment.

They can only intentionally mistreat you if their opinion of you is under 0, if they are your rival, or if they are a potential rival. Potential rival means you have gotten that "growing closer to rivalry" opinion about them in some event.

The 70 weight for intentional mistreatment is increased by half the safe treatment factor from above, so in our example the 10.4 divived by two would be 5.2, so the 70 would increase to 75.2. Any negative opinion of the character is added to this, and any positive opinion is subtracted. So if in this case the physician had a -10 opinion of the character the weight for intentional mistreatment would go up to 85.2

If the physician is Terrified of the character, they will never intentionally mistreat them regardless of opinion or relationship.

So it's a simple system but the calculations are complex. Note that this is for safe treatment options only. Risky treatment is affected by the same factors, but the numbers are quite different. I may return later to try to break that down as well. :)

TL;DR High Learning good. Mystic trait good, Physician trait better. Anatomical Studies perk very good."

[brownacs]

Originally posted by mrfurious26:

Originally posted by brownacs:

I'm pretty confident that it does if you get a competent one. Especially if you get the 'anatomical studies' skill from the 'whole of body' learning lifestyle tree for +50% treatment success chance.

As am I. You can find the factors by which treatment is improved in common\script_values\10_health_values.txt.

Karlington made a nice breakdown on the PI forums:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/threads/court-physician-what-makes-a-person-good-at-the-job.1422477/

Originally posted by Karlington:

"The basis for determining how good a physician is is the physician base skill factor. I'll refer to it as PBSF below.

PBSF equals Learning divided by 8. So Learning 8 gives PBSF 1, 12 gives 1.5, 16 gives 2, and so on.

However, if Learning is 15 or higher the total gets multiplied by 1.3. So let's say a character has Learning 16:

16 / 8 = 2 PBSF
But since 16 is high enough to get the 1.3 multiplication, PBSF ends up being
2 * 1.3 = 2.6

(See physician_base_skill_factor in common\script_values\10_health_values.txt for the script.)



For safe treatment this is then multiplied if the physician has either Physician or Mystic traits. The Physician traits are (with multipliers in parenthesis):

1. Novice Physician (1.5)
2. Physician (2)
3. Renowned Physician (4)

The Mystic traits are:

1. Wise (Wo)Man (1.2)
2. Mystic (1.5)
3. Miracle Worker (2)

EDIT: Herbalist has a multiplier of 1.5

The PBSF is multiplied by the best modifier the character has. They do not stack even if the character has several of the traits.

So, for example, if our Learning 16 example from above, with his 2.6 PBSF, had the Physician trait with a multiplier of 2, his safe treatment skill factor would be 2.6 * 2 = 5.2

In addition to all this, if the liege lord has the Anatomical Studies perk from the Learning skill trees, this figure is doubled. So with 5.2 * 2 we'd end up at 10.4

(Check physician_safe_treatment_skill_factor in common\script_values\10_health_values.txt for script.)


When safe treatment is administered the base numbers are 70% chance of success and 30% chance of failure. The 70 is multiplied by the safe treatment score we got from above. As you can see, the traits and the perk make a tremendous difference there - what started out as a decent 2.6 turned into 5.2 with a trait and then 10.4 with the perk on top of that. :)

One thing to watch out for is that sometimes a physician can deliberately mistreat you. In that case the 70/30 success/fail turns into 70/30/70 success/fail/intentional mistreatment.

They can only intentionally mistreat you if their opinion of you is under 0, if they are your rival, or if they are a potential rival. Potential rival means you have gotten that "growing closer to rivalry" opinion about them in some event.

The 70 weight for intentional mistreatment is increased by half the safe treatment factor from above, so in our example the 10.4 divived by two would be 5.2, so the 70 would increase to 75.2. Any negative opinion of the character is added to this, and any positive opinion is subtracted. So if in this case the physician had a -10 opinion of the character the weight for intentional mistreatment would go up to 85.2

If the physician is Terrified of the character, they will never intentionally mistreat them regardless of opinion or relationship.

So it's a simple system but the calculations are complex. Note that this is for safe treatment options only. Risky treatment is affected by the same factors, but the numbers are quite different. I may return later to try to break that down as well. :)

TL;DR High Learning good. Mystic trait good, Physician trait better. Anatomical Studies perk very good."

Cheers pal. That's a very comprehensive breakdown. Also I'm hoping that guy's name is a Karl Pilkington reference (head like an fing orange).

[Wolfsun]

WOW! That analysis is Very thorough. Kudos to the guy that did it. Really.

That said: now that I've seen it I can't unsee it. Kind'a breaks the whole physician immersion factor - at least for me.

[ChopSuey™]

Maybe I'm pro physician... but I feel so naked in game without one. Bad things always happen without one. Even if its just a rando you've picked out of the crowd who has a good learning skill and absolutely *NO* doctoring at all... they'll learn on the fly. Sure.. someone might die, but they'll get there and they are so needed. Even if its only for my peace of mind ;)

Never had an issue with any plague but... I'm brutal against any incursions. There is much tyranny, jailing, executions and burning of bodies. Seems a lot of my neighbours who form powerful alliances also come down with 'the plague'.

[brownacs]

Originally posted by ChopSuey™:

Never had an issue with any plague but... I'm brutal against any incursions. There is much tyranny, jailing, executions and burning of bodies. Seems a lot of my neighbours who form powerful alliances also come down with 'the plague'. :jawatongue:

It can really, really suck. Like all of your kids and grandkids dead suck.

[jofu]

Originally posted by ChopSuey™:

Maybe I'm pro physician... but I feel so naked in game without one.

Same here. An ability to cure wounds is too good to pass on, especially if you're a flaggelant(your doc would cure you almost immediately after the 'session').
I'm not sure if they're useful during the plague - they can get ill like anyone else. They might be able to prolong some lives, but it only means that the patients will have more time to spread their disease. Sometimes they'll get rid of it, but I don't remember a single time it happened due to physician's aid.