how do I get Sayyid into my dynasty?

[snuggleform]

I'm learning how the muslims work, and I noticed that they can't consecrate the bloodline they have to get Sayyid through an established bloodline. What I don't understand is how to breed this into my dynasty.

I married a Sayyid female, and we had kids with no Sayyid (patrilineal marriage). If the marriage were matrilineal, then the kids would be of her dynasty and my game would end. I'm probably missing something obvious . . . what is it? Do I have to do something convoluted like kidnap a Sayyid male then marry him matrilinearly once recruited to my court?

[brownacs]

I don't think you can. If I'm remembering correctly, the only way I've gotten that trait is by either starting as a character with it or creating one. As you've noticed it has to be a marriage of the Sayyid's lineage I think (and that'd be game over).
The whole Sayyid thing's a bit of a mess in real life by the way: in theory it could refer to anyone who can claim descent from the Banu Hashim (Clan of Hashim, Muhammad's, ASW, clan), some say it applies only to the Ahl al-Bayt (close family of the Prophet, ASW), exactly who they are varies, and some denominations say it has to be patrilineal descent from Muhammad (ASW) which doesn't really make any sense because Sayyids can't really claim patrilineal descent from him (ASW); they have to go matrilineally via Fatima who married Muhammad (ASW)'s cousin Ali, who was also a Hashimite (and Ahl al-Bayt). Some denominations (notably the Deobandists and the Twelvers) split it into Mirza and Sayyid, a Sayyid can either claim full or patrilineal descent and a Mirza only matrilineal. There's also the term Ashraf/Sharif which is kinda synonymous with Sayyid... ish. If you really wanna go down this rabbit hole look up Najeeb al-Tarfayn (noble on both sides). They're people supposedly able to claim descent from both 'royal' houses (Fatima's children Hassan and Hussain). I'll stop rambling now...

[CrUsHeR]

I could swear that i got it into some dynasty members by having a male sayyid in matrilinear with my female dynasty member.

Here it also says that it can only be inherited from a father, but it doesn't require either type of marriage

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Family_(relation)#List_of_other_inherited_traits


But i'm not sure if it would be possible to make this work with the Male-Only policy.
If you die without a male heir, your brother inherits and everything goes on normally.

But what happens if the next living male relative would be a cousin (sayyid) born through your aunt in matrilinear marriage?

Is it even possible for muslim realms to have anyone inherit through a female lineage?
Or wouldn't it prefer the next male relative from a patrilinear descent?

[brownacs]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

I could swear that i got it into some dynasty members by having a male sayyid in matrilinear with my female dynasty member.

Here it also says that it can only be inherited from a father, but it doesn't require either type of marriage

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Family_(relation)#List_of_other_inherited_traits


But i'm not sure if it would be possible to make this work with the Male-Only policy.
If you die without a male heir, your brother inherits and everything goes on normally.

But what happens if the next living male relative would be a cousin (sayyid) born through your aunt in matrilinear marriage?

Is it even possible for muslim realms to have anyone inherit through a female lineage?
Or wouldn't it prefer the next male relative from a patrilinear descent?

The more you know. I think I must've done what Snuggle did and gave up after marrying Abbasids wasn't working. Reform your religion to something more female friendly then? Should work I think.

[snuggleform]

I think I will have to do some investigation if a male sayyid married matrilinearly would cut it since the jury seems out on that. I probably have to resort to abduction to make that happen, and even then it's going to be a pain in the butt. It pretty much means exactly that I have to have one of my daughters ascend and marry her matrilinearly to a Sayyid. Can't just do it with some rando dynasty member because the whole point is to have the bloodline specifically in the characters I play as. It's nowhere near as convenient as a normal consecreated bloodline which just works if either parent has it.

I suppose in the absolute most dastardly of situations, after I test to see if the matrilineal thing works, the workaround is just flip to a non-muslim faith, consecrate the bloodline and move on. Quick google search says the consecrated bloodline doesn't care what faith you are so you can flip back to your muslim faith after. Or equivalently silly become the Saoshyant. I'm already in Persia so I guess . . . that's a possibility.

[brownacs]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Or equivalently silly become the Saoshyant. I'm already in Persia so I guess . . . that's a possibility.

You might have to farm some (a lot of... I'm talking 10s of 1000s of) piety to do that one. I had a similar thought and it pretty much went thusly: "I might convert to... 100,000 piety. Nope." Unless you've lucked out and Zoroastrianism isn't a dead religion.

[snuggleform]

Ah ok yes you can pass sayyid to your kids if you marry matrilinearly to a male sayyid. It wasn't even that hard, there are actually quite a few unlanded lonely Is'mali Egyptian Sayyid males lying around.

I do need to test if Sayyid has the same (hidden) bonus to convert faith in county that consecrated bloodline does.

And to crushers concerns, I made a custom Is'mali religion that has equal so I don't need to worry about the male only thing. And I *think* even if you started with a male-only gender law, you can switch to male-preference if you're in charge. Both are valid under "male-dominate" doctrine after all.

[CrUsHeR]

Okay but abolishing male-only is totally haram.



On a serious note, they actually nerfed the whole sayyid/mirza thing. In CK2 the trait was required to become either Sunni or Shia Caliph. While the bloodline consecration is more like a luxury gadget you don't really need, though the 500 renown is pretty good early on.

[snuggleform]

Eww sayyid doesn't increase conversion speed. Guess I shoulda just made a temporal faith and consecrated. Well I learned a lot on this muslim run. I always leaned in the direction of clans to begin with but this run where I really made use of my knowledge of the game, DAMN I ballooned fast, and this is with a very suboptimal culture which was still in the tribal era whereas the european natures were already 7 researches deep into era 2.

One of the amazing benefits of being Islamic is some of their faiths (not muwalladi or ashari) have 2 holy sites with special temples (Nadjaf, and Mecca) that each give +5 same faith bonus and -10% MAA maintenance. It's quite ridiculous when you personally hold those.