why is dejure drift such a nightmare?

[Immortal Emperor Lane]

if i have 2 kingdom level titles then the one that is not my primary still dejurely drifts to my primary. if the title is no longer landed is it possible to make it landed again? and finally why can't dejure drift work between yourself and your vassels as a emperor?

[CrUsHeR]

Read the requirements here https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Titles#De_jure_drift

A duchy will begin to drift into a kingdom when all of the following conditions are met:

- The entire duchy (i.e. all county titles; baronies are allowed to be outside the realm) is within the realm of the king.
- The king does not hold the crown of the current de jure kingdom to which the duchy belongs.
- The ducal title either does not exist or is held by the king or by a vassal of the king.
- The duchy is not part of the kingdom of Jerusalem.
- The kingdom is its owner's primary title.
- The duchy either shares a land border with, or is a maximum of 2 sea tiles away from the existing de jure kingdom.

If you own the external kingdom title, the de jure duchies under that do not drift. I think the ingame description is still confusing or even wrong, actually the timer should run backwards once the kingdom exists.

[snuggleform]

Ooo good point crusher I remember the in game tooltip being wrong, I think I had a situation like the OP once; I had the empire of kanem-bornu and the kingdom of igbo-buene was de jure drifing into since I had all its de jure territories within my empire and bordering my de jure. I didn't want it to continue so I granted the king vassal independence and the display still showed it as drifting, but when I checked back a few years later it corrected itself and no longer showed a drift. It could be just a visual bug OP.

[CrUsHeR]

I believe there is a different wording in the description when it is already drifting back, though it also suggests that it would still drift into your primary / capital title.

Rest assured that if the title does not meet all of the conditions above, it doesn't drift.

[Emperor2000]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Read the requirements here https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Titles#De_jure_drift

A duchy will begin to drift into a kingdom when all of the following conditions are met:

- The entire duchy (i.e. all county titles; baronies are allowed to be outside the realm) is within the realm of the king.
- The king does not hold the crown of the current de jure kingdom to which the duchy belongs.
- The ducal title either does not exist or is held by the king or by a vassal of the king.
- The duchy is not part of the kingdom of Jerusalem.
- The kingdom is its owner's primary title.
- The duchy either shares a land border with, or is a maximum of 2 sea tiles away from the existing de jure kingdom.

If you own the external kingdom title, the de jure duchies under that do not drift. I think the ingame description is still confusing or even wrong, actually the timer should run backwards once the kingdom exists.

They do drift into your primary title even you hold the other kingdom.
In CK3, they have changed the drift mechanic, what you are saying is for CK2, not for CK3.

Read the Dev Diaries, before saying was it is wrong and not correct.

[snuggleform]

But you have to account for what the ck3 wiki is saying, because it's pulled from the code. Code > dev diary imo.

[Blue]

it did drift, i just try with console mode, holding hungary and croatia kingdom , duchy of slavonia drifting to hungary.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

But you have to account for what the ck3 wiki is saying, because it's pulled from the code. Code > dev diary imo.

Not necessarily, this CK3 wiki entry seems to be mostly copypasted from the CK2 wiki.

https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/De_jure#De_jure_drift
https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Titles#De_jure_drift

[snuggleform]

I mean ok that's interesting. What's the issue it causes though? Once you become emperor those duchy-level issues go away.

I also don't understand the second half of op's question. You definitely de jure drift vassal's kingdoms into your own if you're an emperor.

[Immortal Emperor Lane]

if you want to control the dejure of your vassals
the duchies do not drift to the kingdom tier vassal the vassal do not drift

As an example the kingdom of italy has been reduced to piedmont but i want it to get back all of northern italy for dejure. i gave it all to a vassal, it doesn't change.

Another example is sicily in the same game i have given the title to a vassal as well as all of magna gracia lands (not northern naples) and want the title to regain a dejure territory but it doesn't. i even gave it independence but it still won't drift.

[snuggleform]

Uh I've definitely seen vassals de jure drift duchies into their kingdoms. I had a huge problem with one of my russian vassals creating a gigantic de jure blob. You can clearly see the duchies shape deform and vanish over time.

[CrUsHeR]

Okay but that means that the external duchies are vassals of that king.

Generally you'd want at least your peripheral kingdoms to exist once you have your empire, you can still create duchies inside them for succession. So those do not drift into your primary/capital kingdom.

For the vassals, indeed you'll want crown authority lvl 4 ASAP but that is not available any time soon, in particular in any 867 start where you don't even have lvl 2.

The only substitute i found is that when you have 100 Dread, and 100 vassal opinion, then every vassal will agree on the "stop vassal war" demand. That way you can still maintain beautiful de jure borders almost infinitely without crown authority.

With tribals you are still bound to see frustrating crap, like a vassal of your vassal declaring Subjugation on the Khazars or something. In that case you could send money to the enemy war party so they hire mercs and win.

[Immortal Emperor Lane]

that is not what i mean both kingdoms are in my realm
an example that was successful was Crete which gained dejure on some of Egypt. i gave it independence with its original territory and the territory is returning to Egypt successfully

failed examples include:

however i gave independence to Sicily and the southern duchies of the Italian peninsula so that Sicily would return to existence. i gave it independence the opposing kingdom was owned by me. nothing has happened after a decade. king of Sicily has at least 2 duchies directly.

also galicia and Asturias are my vassals and i am trying to increase the size of dejure galicia at Asturias expense. i have given all the territory to the galica king. i even tried destroying Asturias. nothing changed dejure. this continued for centuries without change.

this is a few examples among many.

its like once i owned a title once the title no longer wants to change dejure.