Why aren't marriages making alliances?

[klirko]

I just married my granddaughter to the son of the Arabian Empire and yet "there are no close enough relations" to make the alliance. Why? I thought it was because I'm a custom Catholic heresy and they're Muslim, but I'm allied with Aquitaine who is Muslim too (although it is the Iberian faith instead of the Arabian one)

[Shampoo]

The marriage partner must be in the close family of the ruler or the ruler themselves for a alliance and is not a concubine. Close family being the son or daughter of the ruler.

You must marry your son or daughter to their son or daughter or to their ruler for a alliance.

[klirko]

Originally posted by Shampoo:

The marriage partner must be in the close family of the ruler or the ruler themselves for a alliance and is not a concubine. Close family being the son or daughter of the ruler.

You must marry your son or daughter to their son or daughter or to their ruler for a alliance.

Oh okay thank you.

[CrUsHeR]

Anyone correct me if this is also wrong, just based on my current playthrough - IIRC the marriage alliance works if there are not more than 3 steps of relation to create the affinity.


For example your niece is within two steps related with you: sibling > niece

So if you get your niece married directly to a ruler, you get an alliance with him. Same would go for your grandchildren. It wouldn't work to get your niece married to a ruler's son.


Your cousin would already be three steps away - your parent > uncle > cousin

Thus it isn't possible to create an alliance by marrying your cousin off, no matter to whom.


Your son could marry the daugher of another ruler - son > other guy's daughter > other guy

Also within three steps, meaning alliance.


FYI if you are looking to negotiate an alliance - this only works with siblings, parents, own children, or if you are related through affinity (i.e. there is a marriage between a close relative of each of you, which you did not arrange)

[magritte]

But if I am understanding the mechanics right (and please correct me if I am wrong), if his granddaughter is the daughter of his heir, an alliance would kick in when his heir inherits. Because then his daughter would be married to the son (or ruler or brother) of the Arabian Emperor. Or am I wrong and the alliance doesn't happen unless the relations are close enough at the time of marriage?

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by magritte:

But if I am understanding the mechanics right (and please correct me if I am wrong), if his granddaughter is the daughter of his heir, an alliance would kick in when his heir inherits. Because then his daughter would be married to the son (or ruler or brother) of the Arabian Emperor. Or am I wrong and the alliance doesn't happen unless the relations are close enough at the time of marriage?

No, because the marriage alliance is >only< a mutual pact for the rulers who arranged the alliance.
It is not the marriage itself creating the alliance, but the act of the marriage arrangement.

Other relatives do also not benefit from this pact. For example if you get your sister married, then your brothers with their own courts do definitely not get an alliance from this.

Though in that constellation, i think they could negotiate one afterwards, assuming i understood the affinity rule for negotiated allances correctly.

Also i believe that the bride and groom always have a mutual alliance regardless. Though i try to avoid marriages between rulers at all costs because that means you have no spouse in your council.



The other thing is that a successful marriage alliance is actually inheritable if the affinity requirements are still met. You'll regularily notice the message "alliance expired" from deceased alliance partners, directly followed by a new alliance of the that ruler's heir.

[snuggleform]

Just a small tip when you are in the stage of picking characters for a marriage, if you scroll down a bit in that screen it will show you whether an alliance will be created or not, before you press accept. Of course you could also look for the alliance icon when scrolling through the list of prospects but what I'm talking about is if you already selected someone and forgot if they would give an alliance or not.

[gaerfeld]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by magritte:

But if I am understanding the mechanics right (and please correct me if I am wrong), if his granddaughter is the daughter of his heir, an alliance would kick in when his heir inherits. Because then his daughter would be married to the son (or ruler or brother) of the Arabian Emperor. Or am I wrong and the alliance doesn't happen unless the relations are close enough at the time of marriage?

No, because the marriage alliance is >only< a mutual pact for the rulers who arranged the alliance.
It is not the marriage itself creating the alliance, but the act of the marriage arrangement.

Other relatives do also not benefit from this pact. For example if you get your sister married, then your brothers with their own courts do definitely not get an alliance from this.

Though in that constellation, i think they could negotiate one afterwards, assuming i understood the affinity rule for negotiated allances correctly.

Also i believe that the bride and groom always have a mutual alliance regardless. Though i try to avoid marriages between rulers at all costs because that means you have no spouse in your council.



The other thing is that a successful marriage alliance is actually inheritable if the affinity requirements are still met. You'll regularily notice the message "alliance expired" from deceased alliance partners, directly followed by a new alliance of the that ruler's heir.

In my playthroughs, I have often come into a situation where I am marrying off my grandchildren to other rulers or their heirs, and each time I do, the father of my grandchild gets the alliance, and it is active as long as he is landed. I have never seen an alliance come from marrying a niece off to a ruler, even if her father is already dead. I have, however gotten an alliance from a grandchild if I outlived that child's father.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by gaerfeld:

In my playthroughs, I have often come into a situation where I am marrying off my grandchildren to other rulers or their heirs, and each time I do, the father of my grandchild gets the alliance, and it is active as long as he is landed. I have never seen an alliance come from marrying a niece off to a ruler, even if her father is already dead. I have, however gotten an alliance from a grandchild if I outlived that child's father.

Alright to clear that up.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2588396679

Here you can see i'm setting up a betrothal for the niece at court.

Sorting by alliance power, you can see that all possible targets are rulers. And yes i scrolled through a hundred of pages, there are only rulers giving an alliance. No heirs, no unlanded people at all.

So this does seem to confirm what i said about the 3 steps of relation for a marriage alliance.



In turn, what you're saying about making a marriage for your landed son's own son cannot be right, because you have no access to this grandson since he isn't your courtier.

[iNsaneMilesy]

When you look up potential spouses, they have to have a Heraldry Flag in their box, dictating their potential allegiance or shield, which is their claims. Married alliance are formed when you marry a direct member of the Rulers family. Child or Sibling.