Rightful Liege

[Shrugged]

As Hvisterk dynasty I managed to form the a new kingdom, but several generations later I also formed Danelaw. Now I have 2 overlapping kingdoms so decided it would be best to fold it into one (since Danelaw was much larger). Once I destroyed my old kingdom title, all of the sudden I am no longer everyone's rightful liege.
Can someone explain this because it seems like either a bug or I am not understanding how an overlapping kingdom can all of the sudden not be rightful title. How can I tell when someone will consider a title their rightful liege?
Thanks ahead of time for helping answer this

[Maj]

If territory you own is not in your kingdom, then you are not their rightful liege. There are two ways to fix that, get a title to that kingdom or wait the 50-100 years for that county to drift into your kingdom naturally.

[kaiyl_kariashi]

when you create a custom kingdom it immediately gains all the land as de jure, and the other kingdom loses it.

If you want to drift safely, just change your primary title. (though generally, never make custom kingdoms or empires unless you know what you're doing)

One of the new changes compared to CK2 is that you CAN safely hold multiple kingdoms/empires and they will still de jure drift into your primary over time.

in CK2, having the de jure empire/kingdom title in your realm would prevent de jure drift. And you were stuck with the non-capital de jure penalty (which is basically the same as rightful liege except it didn't matter if you had the title or not, everything outside of your primary title got the lowest possible contribution though warranted, it was only slightly worse than the benefits of being capital Empire) until it successfully drifted.

Under the new system, you will drift anyway and can get the rightful liege bonuses while you're annexing them.

[Shrugged]

But the territory was in BOTH of my kingdoms and only once i destroyed my custom title did I get the problem. The specific example is the Duchy of Northumbria which was part of my new kingdom and Danelaw... I know this because this was the third Duchy title I got in order to make the custom kingdom.
I guess in the future I will not make custom kingdoms but I don't see why that would fix the issue I am having. All of my territory was within the Danelaw kingdom, so how could any of my vassals not have me as their rightful liege?

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by kaiyl_kariashi:

when you create a custom kingdom it immediately gains all the land as de jure, and the other kingdom loses it.

Yeah that's also why i always disable custom realms, and i think this should be disabled by default. The entire game revolves around the "de jure" system, and the custom realms just ruin that.

-----

FYI the Danelaw is just a converted Kingdom of England. So normally it should work indentical to that title.

https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Decisions

+ Kingdom of England title is replaced by Kingdom of the Danelaw
+ Gain the Kingdom of the Danelaw title

[VayneVerso]

Can I hop in here to ask a question? Two pictures. The first is my custom kingdom of Vikin. My vassals kept going after the king of Sweden, so I had to finally assert dominance and subjugate him, myself. Which means I collected the title to the kingdom of Sweden. But as you can see in the second picture, it overlaps my kingdom.

What does this mean for succession? Does it even matter if I destroy it, since I'm still stuck with Confederate Partition and it would probably just get created automatically for one of my heirs on succession?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2284502408

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2284502434

[Kapika96]

It's not possible for land to have been part of both kingdoms. It can only be de jure part of one. Either click on one of the provinces and check the shield icons (they'll tell you the de jure duchy, kingdom & empire) or go to de jure kingdoms map mode to check.

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by TheWatcherUatu:

Can I hop in here to ask a question? Two pictures. The first is my custom kingdom of Vikin. My vassals kept going after the king of Sweden, so I had to finally assert dominance and subjugate him, myself. Which means I collected the title to the kingdom of Sweden. But as you can see in the second picture, it overlaps my kingdom.

What does this mean for succession? Does it even matter if I destroy it, since I'm still stuck with Confederate Partition and it would probably just get created automatically for one of my heirs on succession?

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2284502408

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2284502434

It probably doesn't matter if you destroy it if you're confederate partition. Although being in Scandinavia it may have the Scandinavian elective law attached to it which would make things different if you don't destroy it.

As for succession, you should keep your de jure lands, while the de jure lands of Sweden go to the heir that inherits the Sweden title. Although it could end up pretty messed up if your vassals haven't kept clean borders (ie. if there are vassals with land in both kingdoms then that will change things). Your land in Denmark could go either way too, depending on how many kids you have/which vassals own it. If the kingdom of Denmark ceases to exist then that one may well be created under confederate partition when you die too. You're probably better off trying to rush for the empire of Scandinavia title. Then everything will be kept together under you regardless of which kid gets what.

[VayneVerso]

Ugh. The de jure system in this game is both interesting and obnoxious. I have no idea how this is going to play out, especially since the Swedish title is Scandinavian Elective. Currently, my player heir has the greatest number of votes, so maybe that actually works out to my benefit. But we'll see.

I intentionally went out of my way not to conquer other kingdoms for this very reason.

I could probably get the three kingdom titles I need to form an empire (I don't really want the de jure Scandinavian empire), but 80 counties is going to be a stretch, since my character is already 51 years old (I have 45 counties right now). Might have to start some serious holy warring.

[VayneVerso]

Something that strikes me funny in this game is how if you think a vassal is becoming too ambitious, you can kind of get all up in their business. Assuming you're paying attention (as tribal), any time you see them trying to expand their territory, you can just declare war, yourself, on the same enemy and that allows you to steamroll your own vassal's troops with impunity and force them to lose the war. Alternatively, you can just win it faster than they can. Of course, wait until both sides are battered before wading in.

That's what I did when I saw one of my vassals going after the king of Sweden. Heck no to that. That's mine.