Emperors should have 3 duchies instead of 2.

[Professor Hardknocks]

As title; Emperors having 3 duchies would make empires more rewarding to finally achieve.

[Razorblade]

Emperors get an increased vassal limit and the ability to have vassal kings, which are already incredibly valuable rewards. Not to mention, getting a third duchy would imply the realm has become more centralized, whereas in reality, empires, especially medieval ones, tend to be very decentralized. It would be rather non-thematic.

[Professor Hardknocks]

Originally posted by Razorblade:

Emperors get an increased vassal limit and the ability to have vassal kings, which are already incredibly valuable rewards. Not to mention, getting a third duchy would imply the realm has become more centralized, whereas in reality, empires, especially medieval ones, tend to be very decentralized. It would be rather non-thematic.

Is this realism simulator or based on having fun?

Vassal kings are godawful, the only worse is super dukes. Vassal kings are uh, trouble stirrers. Nonetheless, the game would be a LOT more fun to have a third duchy.

[Rodi]

-10 opinion aint too bad, that being said, you can easily fit 10+ domain in 2 duchies

[AngerIsAnEnergy]

Why would the game be a LOT more fun with 3 duchies?

Wouldn't it be even more fun with 4 or 5 or 6?

You're an Emperor FFS. What could be more FUN than that?

Have as many duchies as you want, there is no limit, just an opinion modifier.

[Razorblade]

Originally posted by Shadow:

Is this realism simulator or based on having fun?

A game is only fun if it has rules, and CK3's rules are, at the very least, historically-flavored.

Originally posted by Shadow:

Vassal kings are godawful, the only worse is super dukes. Vassal kings are uh, trouble stirrers.

Vassal kings border on OP. You lose some money and troops compared to having many vassals, but you now only have to deal with a few characters, rather than many. Marry a few family members into their families, and suddenly you have a 100% loyal empire for up to 2 entire generations. Not to mention, with your powerful vassals unable to scheme internally, they'll start expanding externally, netting you free territory.

Originally posted by Shadow:

Nonetheless, the game would be a LOT more fun to have a third duchy.

That's an opinion that is not shared by all. Personally, I want to feel like a medieval emperor, not like a highly-centralized, modern Superpower.

[Kapika96]

Then have 3 duchies.

People will like you a bit less, but that's it. There's nothing at all stopping you from having 3, or 4, if you want to.

[BaCaz]

Just go with 3 and deal with the minor penalty

[Kapika96]

Should also add that the only thing you're really arguing for is an extra building.

You can have 5 duchies with no penalty if you want. Just don't create the duchy titles. You won't be able to build the duchy building, but that's literally it. So you can already have 3 duchies with no penalty and 2 duchy buildings. Or 3 duchies with 3 duchy buildings and a tiny penalty.

[JuX]

There is nothing stopping you from holding additional duchies. Go ahead and break the game balance beyond repair with additional duchy buildings if you like.

You gain plenty of rewards becoming emperor. Additional regiment, prestige, renown, knights, etc.

[Valff]

Originally posted by Rodi:

-10 opinion aint too bad, that being said, you can easily fit 10+ domain in 2 duchies

+1

[EA Latium]

It's fine as it is imo, if anything I'd like Empires to be less stable.

[CrUsHeR]

1) Holding more than 2 duchies only incurs a very minor opinion penalty, which even as a Clan government should be nothing to worry about

2) Technically, you will be ruling with Partition succession for the vast majority (and most decisive part) of your campaigns. Thus you could only keep more than 1 duchy title by having kingdom titles for additional sons. Or only 1 eliglible son (which is absolutely not recommended at any time).
By the time you unlock primogeniture, your realm should be perfectly stable and your rulers should have an easy time controlling their vassals right out of the box. Fame level, Genius, dynasty traits, consecrated bloodline, etc.


One random example would be an Ireland run of mine, where i took over Britannia and settled in England. Primogeniture was still very very far away at that point. Lands i could keep myself permanently:

> Essex (incl. the Duchy title)
> York (1 vassal count)
> Hwicce (1 vassal)
> East Anglia (1 vassal)

In that case you'd have Stonehenge, two universities (admittedly they come too late into play), a crazy ton of cities / temples, and several castles to revoke whenever you get some extra domain limit.
The only thing you don't have are the 3 extra duchy buildings, and a very minor drawback of three count vassals paying reduced taxes due to non-dejure liege.

Then once you get primogeniture, the extra duchy buildings are a decent bonus, but your upgrades troops are already crushing everything and your income already is in the hundreds.

[Professor Hardknocks]

I would actually support a stronger penalty for more than the allotted amount of duchies and having the third, which allows slightly more space but also less room to expand beyond your means.

I always rush to a kingdom title first, and totally cheese out the partition. I enjoy it - as long as I can land relatives far away from my core as possible, I can slowly expand the dynasty without clustering them altogether (which helps but doesn't 100% prevent in-house wars and inbreeding).

I usually don't try to control more than 8 counties. I just want the third duchy title for the building.

I don't build a big blob in one area. I look to build small clusters across the map. Sjaelland, Anartta, and Crimea are 3 good spots. It's not easy to reach this longer term goal, but I usually do - and along the way, I acquire a lot of land (to increase diplo range) that I quickly give away and seek to make independent as quickly as possible.

Forming a custom kingdom out of places like Anartta, Sjaelland, Crimea, Delta, and Kent is pretty fun. Or a custom empire out of Denmark, Brittany, Solanki, Ireland, and Pagan.

Anyway - the third duchy should provide no penalty - beyond this should give stronger opinion modifiers and maybe even stress (that's a lot of work) and maybe be modified +/- if you're something like greedy, ambitious, humble, etc.

India is pretty good about culture and religion acceptance and there's a lot of Pagans along the way, so I don't get too much hate that I can't convert, give to someone else, or quash.

Isn't it weird an emperor can hold over 20 counties, but not 3 duchies?

I think it's weird.