How to obtain scheme agents?

[ChrisH_XCV]

So some background, I'm playing as The Byzantine Empire and I've married into Bulgarian royalty in order to produce an heir that is in line to the Bulgarian throne. Currently that heir is sat 3rd in line. I only have to kill off the 2 kids of the current king. (His wife is 47 so i don't predict any more kids for now).

So the problem, The odds of success of murdering him and his 2 kids are very low. I've switched my spouse to help with intrigue, I've got my spymaster helping with support schemes. However the predicted agents of the scheme is 0, this is despite me having a strong hook on a duke of the Bulgarian king and yet the game still says "Predicted Agents 0".

Surely if I have a strong hook on a direct vassal of the target's kids he should show up as a predicted agent. The problem is i dont want to start the scheme and then potentially bail out and wait another 10 years to start again. Also, would previous attempts on relatives of the king influence this?

TLDR, What criteria needs to be met for characters to show as potential scheme agents?

[CrUsHeR]

Pretty sure that they need to be courtiers where the target lives, or at least be located at the court, e.g. as guest or councillor.

It isn't like in CK2 where you could join the assassins and then have 1000 co-plotters from half the world.

[Team Triss]

They have to be willing to join right from the start, so you'd probably have to curry favors ahead of time.

That said, once your start the scheme you can try to recruit other agents on the Schemes page. That tripped me up for a while, I didn't realize you could recruit them during.

[ChrisH_XCV]

My worry is that the game is telling me the predicted agents is 0, my experience suggests thats usually pretty accurate.

[Kayeka]

That's just the agents that will join you from the start. If you're rich enough, you might still be able to find enough conspirators willing to take a bribe.

[Tarshaid]

Originally posted by Kayeka:

That's just the agents that will join you from the start. If you're rich enough, you might still be able to find enough conspirators willing to take a bribe.

On top of that some can cross an extra border if you gift/influence them then bribe them. Fabricating hooks could help but is lifestyle specific, but seduction could also work to put at least one close person in your pocket (seduction + blackmail if you're desperate). So if you're okay with potentially delaying the assassination, you might scrap enough time to pull off a few personal plots. The real hazard with time is whether you'll get the extra event for added success or whether the plot is uncovered, and then you'll need extra work to get a decent success chance.

One thing you could do to see whether some people in the court are willing to be bribed in advance might be to check on their personality (https://ck3.paradoxwikis.com/Character#AI_Personality). I'm guessing that people with high greed and low honor might be swayed without too much issue, and then their actual effectiveness should depend on their intrigue score (+ being spymaster or something).

[Team Triss]

Originally posted by ChrisH_XCV:

My worry is that the game is telling me the predicted agents is 0, my experience suggests thats usually pretty accurate.

Really? I'm usually able to bribe a few unless the target is really beloved.

Very, very few join without some form of coaxing.

[Xef]

The predicted agents will be set to 0 if there seems to be no agents willing to join the scheme without increased opinion of you, bribes or hooks. It's 0 because nobody in the target's court wants to murder the target as is. Generally they either like the target enough to not want to kill him or they're intimidated by his dread.

An easy way to get a good agent to your murder scheme is fabricating a hook on your target's spouse. Since the spouse is non-ruler (Most of the time) they're guaranteed to get a strong hook, which can then be used to force them as a murder agent. And being a target's spouse grants +50 success chance. Spymaster is always the best murder agent with +75 success chance and usually high intrigue to bolster it further, but since they tend to be rulers you can't reliably fabricate a strong hook on them (20% chance on rulers).

[Xef]

Originally posted by LoR Team Triss:

Originally posted by ChrisH_XCV:

My worry is that the game is telling me the predicted agents is 0, my experience suggests thats usually pretty accurate.

Really? I'm usually able to bribe a few unless the target is really beloved.

Very, very few join without some form of coaxing.

The predicted agents is the amount of agents predicted to join without any additional actions, so it's the "free agents".

[ChrisH_XCV]

Originally posted by Xef:

Originally posted by LoR Team Triss:

Really? I'm usually able to bribe a few unless the target is really beloved.

Very, very few join without some form of coaxing.

The predicted agents is the amount of agents predicted to join without any additional actions, so it's the "free agents".

That makes much more sense. So if I go ahead and start the murder plot, there is a chance that my hook on my targets vassal could be used to force him to join? Or is that not possible because the vassal isn't in my targets court?

I would normally just go for it and potentially reload a save if it doesn't work how i expect it to, but this my first game in ironman mode, Im not used to taking such risks.

[Xef]

Originally posted by ChrisH_XCV:

Originally posted by Xef:

The predicted agents is the amount of agents predicted to join without any additional actions, so it's the "free agents".

That makes much more sense. So if I go ahead and start the murder plot, there is a chance that my hook on my targets vassal could be used to force him to join? Or is that not possible because the vassal isn't in my targets court?

I would normally just go for it and potentially reload a save if it doesn't work how i expect it to, but this my first game in ironman mode, Im not used to taking such risks.

If I remember right the people you can recruit as agents are courtiers and guests of the target's court and also the target's vassals, so you should be able to recruit them as an agent. If it's a strong hook, it can be used to force them as an agent and if it's a weak hook it will increase the agent's join value (I don't remember by how much).

[Team Triss]

Originally posted by ChrisH_XCV:

Originally posted by Xef:

The predicted agents is the amount of agents predicted to join without any additional actions, so it's the "free agents".

That makes much more sense. So if I go ahead and start the murder plot, there is a chance that my hook on my targets vassal could be used to force him to join? Or is that not possible because the vassal isn't in my targets court?

I would normally just go for it and potentially reload a save if it doesn't work how i expect it to, but this my first game in ironman mode, Im not used to taking such risks.

Yeah, everyone will have a value you can mouse over and see what modifiers there are. Some will say "Can be convinced" so a well placed bribe will work, others you can try raising with Sway or Seduction while you wait.

[ChrisH_XCV]

Thank you guys so much for the help. Bulgaria is mine.

[Shamanpomedor]

I'm a little late, but I want to say that's exactly what happened to me. Actually, I think it's a error of the game. I remember how I got strong hook over my victim's court physician, but when I started the murder scheme against the victim I couldn't even open the list of possible agents. And then suddenly appeared an agent who could join the murder scheme for coaxing and it became possible to open the list of probable agents. When I opened it, I found that new agent and a court physician that could be used in the scheme because of the hook. I think that for some reason, the game does not consider courtiers and guests with a strong hook as possible agents. So if there are no agents that would join for coaxing, you simply do not have the ability to open the menu of agents and select the person with the hook. That's it.