heir to a kingdom title that doesn't exist?

[VayneVerso]

Can somebody explain this? I'm thinking about my character's succession and noticed that I picked up a secondary kingdom title from a recent conquest, that was going to go to another son. I'd rather it all stay within my current kingdom for now, because I want to eventually turn it into an empire. So I spent 800 prestige to destroy the kingdom title, and yet it's still listed there as his inheritance.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2275083846

[Kayeka]

Hi! Welcome to the forum. Hope you enjoy your stay here.

What is happening is because of "confederate partition". It is the default succession law, and it means that your lands will be divided over all your eligible heirs (your sons, in this case).

It also means that, if a title of equivalant rank to your primary title can be created from the lands you hold, it will be created upon your death, and given to whichever heir is next in line, splitting your lands into independant realms.

The good news is that your primary heir will gain a Pressed Claim on the lands lost, so regaining those lands is only a quick war away.

Getting out of Confederate Partition requires technology that won't be gained for a long time, and requires you to be feudal.

[VayneVerso]

Originally posted by Kayeka:

It also means that, if a title of equivalant rank to your primary title can be created from the lands you hold, it will be created upon your death, and given to whichever heir is next in line, splitting your lands into independant realms.

The good news is that your primary heir will gain a Pressed Claim on the lands lost, so regaining those lands is only a quick war away.

Getting out of Confederate Partition requires technology that won't be gained for a long time, and requires you to be feudal.

Wow. So what is the point of destroying a title, then?

[Kayeka]

Well, at some point you will get out of Confederate Partition, and no new titles will be created upon death. You are also going to want to manipulate exactly which duchies are available for inheritance by your heirs. It's the kind of thing you'll learn over time.

[VayneVerso]

Originally posted by Kayeka:

Well, at some point you will get out of Confederate Partition, and no new titles will be created upon death. You are also going to want to manipulate exactly which duchies are available for inheritance by your heirs. It's the kind of thing you'll learn over time.

Damn this confederate partition! ha! Yeah, I'll never get my realm size to 80 in this character's lifetime in order to make this empire. Really, I kind of just wanted it to be one giant kingdom. Why is the kingdom of Sweden allowed to be so enormous?

[Kapika96]

Originally posted by TheWatcherUatu:

Originally posted by Kayeka:

Well, at some point you will get out of Confederate Partition, and no new titles will be created upon death. You are also going to want to manipulate exactly which duchies are available for inheritance by your heirs. It's the kind of thing you'll learn over time.

Damn this confederate partition! ha! Yeah, I'll never get my realm size to 80 in this character's lifetime in order to make this empire. Really, I kind of just wanted it to be one giant kingdom. Why is the kingdom of Sweden allowed to be so enormous?

Well you can grow kingdoms. You just need to own an entire duchy on the border of your kingdom and then 50-100 years later (depending whether you use your chancellor and how good they are) it will officially be part of the kingdom.

Plus, so long as you don't own enough land outside the kingdom to form another kingdom, that won't happen either. So you can grow the kingdom little by little at least.

[Kayeka]

Originally posted by TheWatcherUatu:

Originally posted by Kayeka:

Well, at some point you will get out of Confederate Partition, and no new titles will be created upon death. You are also going to want to manipulate exactly which duchies are available for inheritance by your heirs. It's the kind of thing you'll learn over time.

Damn this confederate partition! ha! Yeah, I'll never get my realm size to 80 in this character's lifetime in order to make this empire. Really, I kind of just wanted it to be one giant kingdom. Why is the kingdom of Sweden allowed to be so enormous?

Sweden tends to take a bite out of rival kingdoms without taking the 51% of counties required to create the kingdom title, allowing their conquests to be united under a single ruler for an awfully long time.

It is not particularly hard for a tribal ruler to conquer an entire De Jure empire within a lifetime, though. One trick is not to raise levies, and fight using only your Men-At-Arms whenever you can get away with it. Since Men-At-Arms only cost prestige to create and maintain, you'll steadily build a supply of gold for mercenaries, bribes, or whatever.

[Sol]

Confed partition can be cheesed! Ensure you have only ONE copy of the highest tier title and don't expand beyond your succession means. Don't get the counties for a second duchy unless you can get a kingdom. Don't expand in a way that you will qualify for a second kingdom unless you will have an empire before your death. That is step one.

Now, if you're king, you can have 5-6 duchy titles - as long as you don't have enough to make a second kingdom, or that will happen. So, don't.

Let's say you have 5 heirs - a primary and 4 others. Let's say you have one King title, 8 Duke titles, and 12 Counties.

Start by giving one duke title to each of the other 4 heirs, and give them the county capital of their duchy. Then, your heir will inherit your primary king title AND the remaining duchy and county titles. Under partition laws, heirs who own land won't be given a title equal (or lower) than what they already own.

So, you can cheese out the entire process. Just control your own growth, be aware of what duchies/kingdoms you're going to be able to create if you take this or that territory.

Really, it's just like being able to pick your own heir. Once in a while a rogue heir might inherit a county in BFE or something, but your main heir will inherit almost everything - and if you're clever in your distributions, you might even be able to just vassalize the other members of your family who were given those titles.

[VayneVerso]

Thanks, all. Yeah, I had been doing pretty well with expanding under confederate partition, but I noticed one of my high chiefs (my brother) going to war against my neighbor realm, and I really didn't want one of my vassals acquiring that much territory (I mean, the dude is an ally with the King of Sweden and his 15,000 troops, apparently!), so I declared conquest on the realm and took the whole thing. Didn't realize I was getting an extra kingdom in the mix.

I mean, it's fine. I've just been enjoying taking my time and expanding at my own pace, because I'm really not a huge fan of being constantly at war. Hopefully, they'll be able to keep the Luchanev dynasty peace after this king dies.

[Xef]

Just another note about Sweden: They probably use the scandinavian elective for their higher ranking titles which makes the title distribution work different from basic confederate partition.

[VayneVerso]

Originally posted by Xef:

Just another note about Sweden: They probably use the scandinavian elective for their higher ranking titles which makes the title distribution work different from basic confederate partition.

Yeah, they do, and I have to confess that I haven't fully looked into what that means. But ultimately, the thing is the dude controls a ton of territory with only a single king title to worry about, and he can field nearly 30,000 troops (20k levy + 10k men-at-arms) just on his own. He could easily take over the entirety of Europe right now.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2275326967

[Sol]

Get an empire title for Scandanavia, pick Scandanavian Elective, then vote for your heir. You will forever have that title until the date comes that removes the option.

Also, if you have one Empire Title, you can safely manage multiple kings like I mentioned above that a King can do with Dukes.

If you want, you can set up 3 kings to each have ONE duchy in the other's kingdoms. This will give them something - other than you - to do for a while. If one gets too big, send the assassins.

Sometimes, I will look to get a territory a bit away and plant a few heirs and grant independence just so they can spread the dynasty a bit further. If I am Scandanavia, I want my heirs sitting in Russia, UK, Bulgaria, and Spain. Hopefully they will succeed for a little bit and provide some future allies, dynasty prestige/renown.

[Kayeka]

Originally posted by TheWatcherUatu:

Originally posted by Xef:

Just another note about Sweden: They probably use the scandinavian elective for their higher ranking titles which makes the title distribution work different from basic confederate partition.

Yeah, they do, and I have to confess that I haven't fully looked into what that means. But ultimately, the thing is the dude controls a ton of territory with only a single king title to worry about, and he can field nearly 30,000 troops (20k levy + 10k men-at-arms) just on his own. He could easily take over the entirety of Europe right now.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2275326967

Yeah, that's Sweden alright. Note how they took bits of Norway, Sampi, Denmark and East Francia without ever going over half the counties of any of those respective kingdoms. I once had them invade the kingdom of Aquitaine, and had to redirect a crusade just to kick them out again.

You can grow quite large under confederate Partition. if you keep an eye on the De Jure kingdoms map.

[VayneVerso]

Originally posted by Shadow:

Sometimes, I will look to get a territory a bit away and plant a few heirs and grant independence just so they can spread the dynasty a bit further. If I am Scandanavia, I want my heirs sitting in Russia, UK, Bulgaria, and Spain. Hopefully they will succeed for a little bit and provide some future allies, dynasty prestige/renown.

I have wanted to do that for a while, actually. Somebody way down in the line of succession, or a bastard child or something. Just get him situated somewhere out of the way with a couple of counties and then maybe switch to play that character. I think I kind of waited too long, though, because most of the map has blobbed up.

I might do it, though, in that area on the other side of Ruthenia. It's still sort of a disorganized mess over there.

[Spnountky]

Originally posted by Kayeka:

It also means that, if a title of equivalant rank to your primary title can be created from the lands you hold, it will be created upon your death, and given to whichever heir is next in line, splitting your lands into independant realms.

Thanks for your clear answer, helped me a lot !

Cheers