Byzantines?

[LetGodSortThemOut]

I've start a couple new campaigns as Principality of Salerno in 867 and keep running in to the same problem, massive Byzantine Empire by late 1200s. In 3 campaigns the Muslim states made little progress in weakening the Byzantines in either Anatolia or Africa and there has yet to be any sort of Crusade called by the Pope against them even though they have several counties in Italy. In my most recent campaign it is 1280 and there appears to be no slowing the Purple Cancer.

I can keep them from declaring war on me and taking Duchies (as they were doing in earlier campaigns) by continuously keeping the Byanztine Emperor as a fan with Gifts and Sways, but this is just a work around. Their troop strength is 38000, mine is 12000. I've tried to go to war with them but my Allies/Dynasty Members either don't show up in time or are not strong enough together to beat them back across the Adriatic/Ionian.

Do the Byantines ever go through Civil War in the game to help contribute to their shrink/collapse? Any suggests/ideas how to stop/shrink their Map Painting?

[bearfieldlee]

I think the problem is that they are functioning like an extremely powerful feudal monarchy at present, rather than an Empire. CK2 had different mechanics for Empires but not so here and God knows when....

[someblk]

I've seen a lot of people complain that they grow out of control in every game. Although you don't expect the game to follow real world history, it would be nice if it didn't always do the total opposite of real world history!

On what to do, I have a similar issue in my current playthrough. Well technically it's not actually an issue for me as they're the only other Copts in the game, making them a natural ally for me, but I don't like their unrealistic expansion and do want to put it in check.

I'm trying a plan for this but no idea how it will work... I managed to do a
matrilineal marriage of one my daughters to the great grandchild (3rd in line) of the Byzantine Emperor. That guy died so he's now the grandchild and 2nd in line of the current Emperor. They probably allowed it because he was 'only' a great grandchild, but of course if there is no major internal coup then we know he will eventually be Emperor.

In theory that would put my dynasty on the throne there with his first child, although I suspect they might take him out of the succession line when it gets closer, but we will see. If I get lucky enough for this to happen then I was next going to work on how I could get myself, through marriage and murder, onto the title with my main ruler. Not that I want to rule them, but if I do somehow succeed then I will destroy the Empire title and give most of the vassals their independence, which will make a united Byzantine Empire almost impossible to reform and allow me to pick off weaker, independent rulers if I choose to expand in that direction.

[GorishiDan]

My current playthrough byzantine is expanding fairly well, but not matching Seljuk whose swallowing everything and nearing Genghis Khan's territory - I too seen people complain about them expanding disproportionately but i really can't related, no playthrough i ever had was byzantine as strong as they seem to be in these people's game so idk - in fact, most time they lose land over time and its kind of sad to see tbh

[Zero, Dark Knight]

In my games, Alba tends to expand rather rapidly and become the 'mega empire', while

Byzantines grow into some of their old Roman territory, north west, south west, and west.

Also the Pope is always some sort of mass expansionist mad-man in every game I've seen.

[someblk]

Originally posted by Zero, Dark Knight:

Also the Pope is always some sort of mass expansionist mad-man in every game I've seen.

He also keeps calling Crusades even when he's unlanded.

[MelkorTm]

i destroyed byzantium at year 1030. didnt even give me hard time. but all that vassals making problems.

[Xef]

Byzantine stays strong because they have primogeniture since the start. No title splitting means the liege is never going to become very weak. Combine that with the monster capital and it's easy to see why they stay relevant in every game. They also share religion and culture with pretty much the whole initial empire and the capital is also a holy site that gives +5 direct vassal opinion, so all the nearby vassals are relatively happy.

Essentially the empire isn't going to split unless there's a major independence war that the vassals would win and that's unlikely to happen considering how strong the liege is.

I never had any problems with them though, it's easy enough to become the strongest empire on the map within the first generation or two and after that you can pretty much do whatever you want.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Dan <3 Queen Chryssie:

My current playthrough byzantine is expanding fairly well, but not matching Seljuk whose swallowing everything and nearing Genghis Khan's territory

That is definitely something done by your mods.

With default rules in the vanilla game, muslims are only competetive if the player is ruling them. Clan government makes it so they get 0% taxes and levies due to low vassal opinion, no chance to keep crown authority high, polygamy+partition literally always has the Caliphs/Sultans reign with 1 county and 2-4k total military strength. Then the independence revolts destroy their realms.
Also because there are so many different sections (sunni/shia/mukkahima etc) which don't help each other in crusades.

Byzantines however are always totally dominating, unless the player does directly assault them or at least fence them in on one side. Not exactly a miracle if the strongest empire gets free primogeniture for no reason.

FYI it isn't even their emperor doing the expansion most of the time, but the vassals.

[Taifun_Vash]

Most often I ally with them through marriage and make them part of my dynasty. But even if they became a problem for me with their expansion in my playthrough now, I field most often more then double their troops. In this now I have four times their army and it's not directly them expanding it's their vassals, that are expanding all over the place, when they reach the standing of a king.

[someblk]

Originally posted by Xef:

Byzantine stays strong because they have primogeniture since the start.

How does that work exactly? Not disagreeing with you (seen plenty of others say they have it from the start to think otherwise), but the Greek culture shows that primogeniture is not yet discovered. So if it's not via their culture, what shenanigans are they using to have it unlocked?

[SnowSwift (Fred)]

@someblk : You can't destroy your main title... I tried it too LOL

[Xef]

Originally posted by someblk:

Originally posted by Xef:

Byzantine stays strong because they have primogeniture since the start.

How does that work exactly? Not disagreeing with you (seen plenty of others say they have it from the start to think otherwise), but the Greek culture shows that primogeniture is not yet discovered. So if it's not via their culture, what shenanigans are they using to have it unlocked?

It's just set as their realm succession law at the start of the game. You can see it for yourself if you want. Start the game as any ruler in either start date, pick Byzantine Empire, check realm succession law: Primogeniture.

[someblk]

Originally posted by SnowSwift (Fred):

@someblk : You can't destroy your main title... I tried it too LOL

It wouldn't be my main title though; that one is the Empire of Abyssinia

[someblk]

Originally posted by Xef:

Originally posted by someblk:

How does that work exactly? Not disagreeing with you (seen plenty of others say they have it from the start to think otherwise), but the Greek culture shows that primogeniture is not yet discovered. So if it's not via their culture, what shenanigans are they using to have it unlocked?

It's just set as their realm succession law at the start of the game. You can see it for yourself if you want. Start the game as any ruler in either start date, pick Byzantine Empire, check realm succession law: Primogeniture.

Haha so basically "cheat mode enabled" .. I guess if they changed their succession law (I realise they won't), then they wouldn't be able to change back due to it not being discovered by Greek culture.