Witch secret (semi-rant)

[sbudy]

Like the rest of the secrets in the game, you can't do anything with someone's witch secret besides blackmail, which is a pity.. Since witch covens are so awesomely OP, the reasonable thing to do with a witch secret was to ask the witch to teach you (or blackmail him into teaching you!), but you just can't do that. Instead, you are dependent on random events spawning (mostly on Medicine focus). It's frustrating.

[Jackochainsaw]

I'd like more on the Witch front. I've tried to get the coven several times now, it always arrives too late in my game when my family is already a behemoth. I think it should be a choice to join, rather than it just randomly appearing. As you say, a system where you can find out more about witchcraft from a witch and "join the fold" would be an awesome expansion to the mechanic (if you had imprisoned one or come across somebody with the secret).

[sbudy]

I've got the coven on time and easily by starting with a witch custom ruler. You don't have the pesky 60% demand on the first generation, you just need your heir and two other members (typically his siblings, initiated on age 15 from education by me).
However some achievements are inaccessible for custom rulers (in this case, Volva).

[Jackochainsaw]

Originally posted by sbudy:

I've got the coven on time and easily by starting with a witch custom ruler. You don't have the pesky 60% demand on the first generation, you just need your heir and two other members (typically his siblings, initiated on age 15 from education by me).
However some achievements are inaccessible for custom rulers (in this case, Volva).

I'll remember that one. Shame it doesn't work for Volva, you just have to get lucky and get it early enough.

[Viktor Von Groyper]

Until they flesh it out, I go witch, convert vassals and then arrest them for being a witch and then take their land or ransom them. Its a great money maker

[Solitus]

CK2 had secret societies you could join if you met the requirements; I don't know why they didn't include it in CK3.

[The Former]

I'm one of the few who doesn't want witch mechanics empowered. We're wandering into high fantasy if we do that, which is not what this game is supposed to represent. We already have the ability to transcend humanity through meditation in conference with Hindu deities. Any further down the path of fantastical tropes and it won't feel grounded in history anymore.

Witches should be what they were historically: Those who practiced holistic medicine in a way that wasn't condoned by the church and was therefore considered anathema. Witches in the Middle Ages had no particular "powers", the term was just applied to those with obscure and uncanny talents for medicine and the like which couldn't be explained.

Besides all this, the game already puts too much importance on witches. Witches were largely a non-factor during this period. It wasn't until the 1600's or so that a big campaign against witches started happening.

This is treading back towards the supernatural DLC in CK2, whose concept I also hated. Let the modders handle this.

[CrUsHeR]

The whole witch content should be removed from the game, it borders the "devil worshipper" nonsense from CK2. Besides being very ahistorical for catholic europe in 1066.

[Rogress (UA)]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

The whole witch content should be removed from the game, it borders the "devil worshipper" nonsense from CK2. Besides being very ahistorical for catholic europe in 1066.

It added something additional to do and added extra options in dealing with noncompliant vassals. You could always turn it off in the settings too. Right now the only thing to do after your kids are inbred enough is to get stressed at how crazy and useless your own vassals are.

[brownacs]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Besides being very ahistorical for catholic europe in 1066.

I wouldn't pull at the ahistorical thread; it's practically holding the game together.

[sbudy]

Originally posted by Jackochainsaw:

I'll remember that one. Shame it doesn't work for Volva, you just have to get lucky and get it early enough.

I got it once on March 867 with Jarl Dyre "The stranger" from Konugardr (Kiev).
I had learning 19 and a court physician with high learning (think he was a herbalist too, not sure about that).
The Medicine focus event had me getting witchcraft from one of his Hogwarts textbooks.
.Two months later I got punished for my lucky break with "Melancholic" and anger-quitted. Argh.
It didn't happen again since then. The difficult part for Dyre (besides his annoying neighbors, that is) is the high learning court physician. His courtiers and potential physicians usually suck.
There are not too many Asatru rulers with high learning on 867. There's Dyre and the Flatfners (Chieftess Audr from Iceland and her father from the isle of Mann, but he's too old).

[sbudy]

Originally posted by sbudy:

The difficult part for Dyre (besides his annoying neighbors, that is) is the high learning court physician. His courtiers and potential physicians usually suck.

LOL. Just started another try with Dyre, and got three courtiers with high learning (18, 19, 20) and high intrigue too (ok, not high, but sufficient. 11-12). Plus a quick concubine. Someone is determined to prove me wrong, but the courtiers draw is really arbitrary.
Now, which one is the witch?

[sbudy]

And in the next try as Dyre, I'm starting without a Marshal and Steward and with a chancellor with diplomacy 0 (and restarting immediately, obviously)...
Dyre himself has base learning 9 instead of 16. Part of it is probably due to random spouse stats, but still.
While randomizing stats and even courtiers and spouse is reasonable, what's really annoying is randomizing initial perks.
For instance, Dyre begins with two random perks from the diplomacy lifestyle. Instead of the obvious choice - say, two of the triad befriend, groomed to rule and thoughtful - I got benevolent intent and firm hand, which are practically useless (the entire Majesty branch is useless IMO). Why not let the player pick that at least?

[sbudy]

Got Volva with Dyre on 886. It took twenty years this time, but once he was a witch (same event, the Hogwarts textbook) the rest was easy. I think maybe the trait that the physician/courtier should have to trigger this event is scholar and not herbalist (although I was a herbalist, so maybe that's enough).

[Сааребас]

I don't know, maybe CK2 went a little overboard with the occult but seeing how important religion and spiritualism was these days I'd say CK3 lacks in that aspect.
That and in CK2 aswell in a certain way.

It was something that influenced (almost) every step of daily life.

Then again, even though we play as rulers we hardly have any view into the daily life of the people, let alone the rulers.