Saxon Elective??

[Engellus]

Is Saxon elective meant to give away ALL of your titles following an election and end your game? Pretty sure it should only give away your kingdom tier title, leaving you with whatever counties/duchies you had under that.

Also, anyone else seen your vassals no longer viable claimants in Saxon Elective? I have tons of cousins and male siblings, none are viable heirs to vote for. I have 19 electors, yet only ONE of them is a viable claimant to vote for. What does that mean? Infant son versus 50 year old duke. That's gotta be a bug, right?

[DarthHammer]

To quote the description for Saxon Elective:

"The Ruler and all direct De Jure Vassals of one or two Ranks below the Title can nominate an Heir from the most Powerful Vassals amongst them, the Ruler's Legitimate children, and any other valid Claimant."

So based on that, your cousins and brothers are not valid candidates. As for the electors, I guess it only ranks that one duke as powerful enough to vote for. Maybe your other powerful vassals are not de jure part of that kingdom so aren't valid candidates?

As for losing titles, whoever gets the kingdom will get the duchy/county that contains the realm capital since that's all part of the 'primary title.' (Same reason you can't grant those titles away when you hold the kingdom title.) Getting game over might have been because those were your only titles aside from the kingdom.

[Engellus]

All of Ireland, Scotland and Wales is held by dukes, in addition to England. None of them are viable heirs. They used to allow the English ones, like Mercia and Wessex. Now, nope.

I have Essex and Kent, so my primary title has more than just London.

That said, I have 2 duchies and 8 counties, including London. There should be no reason why i lose EVERYTHING on succession. I had the same issue when i was elected emperor of the HRE while i was king of Denmark. Game ended when i died, rather than continuing as the king of Denmark.

[Engellus]

Originally posted by DarthHammer:

To quote the description for Saxon Elective:

"The Ruler and all direct De Jure Vassals of one or two Ranks below the Title can nominate an Heir from the most Powerful Vassals amongst them, the Ruler's Legitimate children, and any other valid Claimant."

I just checked an older save, and I was right. Despite what the description says. My cousins and nephews are eligible claimants even though they're landless. In this older save, some of the dukes are viable as well, but not all of them. Anyone who has a claim SHOULD be a viable candidate, I don't know why that isn't the case with my latest save.

[DarthHammer]

Gonna repeat the quote with added formatting for emphasis:

"The Ruler and all direct De Jure Vassals of one or two Ranks below the Title can nominate an Heir from the most Powerful Vassals amongst them, the Ruler's Legitimate children, and any other valid Claimant."

So the dukes in Ireland, Scotland, and Wales can't vote because they're not part of the De Jure kingdom of England. And the reason those dukes of Mercia and Wessex are no longer valid is because they stopped being Powerful Vassals at some point.

As for losing your titles, I don't know what would be causing that. All I can say is check your succession tab, it will give you a breakdown of exactly where your titles will go.

[Engellus]

I suppose i should have made it clear. Ireland, Wales and Scotland are all entirely de jure to K England now. So, yes. They count.

As for succession, it is male preference partition. Saxon elective is giving K England to Duke X of ♥♥♥♥ hole land... Including my duchies of Essex and Kent and the 8 counties between them.

[DarthHammer]

Originally posted by Engellus:

I suppose i should have made it clear. Ireland, Wales and Scotland are all entirely de jure to K England now. So, yes. They count.

As for succession, it is male preference partition. Saxon elective is giving K England to Duke X of ♥♥♥♥ hole land... Including my duchies of Essex and Kent and the 8 counties between them.

Well it seems to me then like two things are happening:

- Integrated titles don't become part of the electorate.
- Saxon Elective is giving all of your titles to the candidate, not just the kingdom.

Now I have no idea if those things are indented or are bugs. Maybe post a bug report in the PDX forum?

[Engellus]

The duchies that are integrated are all electors, but none of them are viable claimants to vote for. Mercia, Wessex, etc. are all not viable claimants either, but they are in the older save file.

Guess I'll have to because i'm confident that the purpose of Saxon Elective is to work similar to the HRE where the primary title can be shuffled around between the different dukes. It doesn't make sense why it would just end your game because it gives everything away.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by DarthHammer:

To quote the description for Saxon Elective:

"The Ruler and all direct De Jure Vassals of one or two Ranks below the Title can nominate an Heir from the most Powerful Vassals amongst them, the Ruler's Legitimate children, and any other valid Claimant."

So based on that, your cousins and brothers are not valid candidates.

Claims are actually inherited down the line. So if these cousins or brothers directly descend from a deceased holder of the title (e.g. your grandfather who created/usurped the title), they should also be the mentioned Claimants.

And as long as females are not explicitly excluded through "male only" inheritance, daughters married to rulers from other dynasties will also pass the claims on to their kids.

Which means that the electors could even vote for a foreign king. A terrible, terrible law. Same like Tanistry, you're shooting your own foot by using this.

[Engellus]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

Originally posted by DarthHammer:

To quote the description for Saxon Elective:

"The Ruler and all direct De Jure Vassals of one or two Ranks below the Title can nominate an Heir from the most Powerful Vassals amongst them, the Ruler's Legitimate children, and any other valid Claimant."

So based on that, your cousins and brothers are not valid candidates.

Claims are actually inherited down the line. So if these cousins or brothers directly descend from a deceased holder of the title (e.g. your grandfather who created/usurped the title), they should also be the mentioned Claimants.

And as long as females are not explicitly excluded through "male only" inheritance, daughters married to rulers from other dynasties will also pass the claims on to their kids.

Which means that the electors could even vote for a foreign king. A terrible, terrible law. Same like Tanistry, you're shooting your own foot by using this.

That was my understanding as well, however none of the family members except for my infant son are available to be chosen as the heir. Something is definitely not working properly. There are 42 living members of my family, more women than men, but there should be about 8 viable heirs.