Confederate Partition > Partition -- What is the advantage?

[Arson]

I can see the main difference among these two succession types is the creation of titles for non-heir children. I'm not sure why that would be a problem, though. The heir you assume would have claims to all of these titles, and I would think having them already created would actually be an advantage, wouldn't it?

Looking for someone to help me understand why one should advance to Partition (obviously High Partition has its advantages).

[50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey]

Creating new titles is indeed the worst drawback of confederate. The problem starts to arise once you have, say, 2 kingdom titles. This means, if you have 2 eligible heirs, that one of them will get one kingdom, and one the other - even if it wasn't created by you.

This saves you the gold cost in creating them, but introduces the possibility of LARGE chunks of your realm leaving after a ruler death, as a King will not naturally be vassal to another person at the king-tier level.

The best strategy, by far, is to force yourself to not have anymore children after you have achieved your one male heir. There are multiple ways to easily achieve this.

[Arson]

Right, but in your given example let's say I possess 1 Kingdom title and the ability to create a second, but choose not to. According to my understanding of Confederate Partition this title would be created for my second child upon my death. If I did create the second title before my death the second child would still inherit the title. It seems like the title is created for free, in this sense.

Part of why I'm asking is my current situation: I have 2 Kingdom titles. One each will go to my 2 sons. I have 4 uncreated Duchy titles waiting. Is there an advantage to creating these titles now if they would potentially be created upon my death anyway? If I create them now it will cost me 1,000 gold and my children will inherit them accordingly anyway.

Perhaps I don't understand it fully.

[AdahnGorion]

Originally posted by 50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey:

Creating new titles is indeed the worst drawback of confederate. The problem starts to arise once you have, say, 2 kingdom titles. This means, if you have 2 eligible heirs, that one of them will get one kingdom, and one the other - even if it wasn't created by you.

This saves you the gold cost in creating them, but introduces the possibility of LARGE chunks of your realm leaving after a ruler death, as a King will not naturally be vassal to another person at the king-tier level.

The best strategy, by far, is to force yourself to not have anymore children after you have achieved your one male heir. There are multiple ways to easily achieve this.

This is just a gamey way to play and even exploiting mechanics tbh... he will tire of the game fast if that is the route.. he should instead embrace RP and try to expand his dynasty, it is good to get more kingdom titles to heirs, we want the best for our kids.

[JuX]

Originally posted by Arson:

Right, but in your given example let's say I possess 1 Kingdom title and the ability to create a second, but choose not to. According to my understanding of Confederate Partition this title would be created for my second child upon my death. If I did create the second title before my death the second child would still inherit the title. It seems like the title is created for free, in this sense.

Part of why I'm asking is my current situation: I have 2 Kingdom titles. One each will go to my 2 sons. I have 4 uncreated Duchy titles waiting. Is there an advantage to creating these titles now if they would potentially be created upon my death anyway? If I create them now it will cost me 1,000 gold and my children will inherit them accordingly anyway.

Perhaps I don't understand it fully.

Since your so close to 3 kingdom tittles you can form an empire then entire realm will go to your main heir. He will loose extra duchy tittles and holdings, but retains the entire realm you have created.

With partition you can prevent any unnecessary tittles from forming, such as kingdoms within your empire which can turn in to powerful friends or foes, when you can simply retain everything on duchy level and keep balance of power the way you see fit.


Should empire attempt fail you can try again by retaking the lost kingdoms form the empire and break the kingdom tittles, instead of handing or inheriting them out.

[Arson]

I will need to acquire another Kingdom and the other requisites first, but that's a good idea. Thank you.

[Eddie Latium]

Originally posted by Arson:

Right, but in your given example let's say I possess 1 Kingdom title and the ability to create a second, but choose not to. According to my understanding of Confederate Partition this title would be created for my second child upon my death. If I did create the second title before my death the second child would still inherit the title. It seems like the title is created for free, in this sense.

Part of why I'm asking is my current situation: I have 2 Kingdom titles. One each will go to my 2 sons. I have 4 uncreated Duchy titles waiting. Is there an advantage to creating these titles now if they would potentially be created upon my death anyway? If I create them now it will cost me 1,000 gold and my children will inherit them accordingly anyway.

Perhaps I don't understand it fully.

Working as intended. Look at Spain in 1066 for example, that's basically what happened right before the game start, a kingdom that got divided by the family, in different kingdoms, and there's the chance to reunite the crown.

If you know already that is gonna get divided, you have to options, one is to save money and let the thing happen naturally, two to create them yourself and give it to them, that will give you Prestige and they will start their journeys earlier, they are both viable options with their pros and cons, as always, it's all very contextual.

Otherwise if your character still has time and resources, I'd follow Jux's advice.

[Yaldabaoth]

Creating a new top-tier title for your brothers is actually the BEST part, since you get a claim on everything you didn't get when they go independent. You don't if they stay inside your realm. And they start with no men-at-arms, so you can just attack them day 1, get everything back, ezpz.

[Arson]

Originally posted by Yaldabaoth:

Creating a new top-tier title for your brothers is actually the BEST part, since you get a claim on everything you didn't get when they go independent. You don't if they stay inside your realm. And they start with no men-at-arms, so you can just attack them day 1, get everything back, ezpz.

If a title is created for them do I not get a claim on it?

[Eddie Latium]

Originally posted by Arson:

If a title is created for them do I not get a claim on it?

You won't indeed, even when split by law. One of the reasons why cousin marriages were common.

[NorPhi]

Originally posted by 50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey:

The best strategy, by far, is to force yourself to not have anymore children after you have achieved your one male heir. There are multiple ways to easily achieve this.

If your heir then turns out to be someone elses bastard, you have an instant game over.

[MasterKroket]

I just go with the disinherit route if i have the renown lol...
at the start that is unlikely though if you have like 6 sons...

Originally posted by Darkie:

Originally posted by 50 Shades of Gandalf the Grey:

Creating new titles is indeed the worst drawback of confederate. The problem starts to arise once you have, say, 2 kingdom titles. This means, if you have 2 eligible heirs, that one of them will get one kingdom, and one the other - even if it wasn't created by you.

This saves you the gold cost in creating them, but introduces the possibility of LARGE chunks of your realm leaving after a ruler death, as a King will not naturally be vassal to another person at the king-tier level.

The best strategy, by far, is to force yourself to not have anymore children after you have achieved your one male heir. There are multiple ways to easily achieve this.

This is just a gamey way to play and even exploiting mechanics tbh... he will tire of the game fast if that is the route.. he should instead embrace RP and try to expand his dynasty, it is good to get more kingdom titles to heirs, we want the best for our kids.

Yeah wait for stupid AI to get 5 daughters only and marry em off with normal marriage.
Bye bye kingdom title for the family.... Until they fix that... I wouldnt want my empire to split unless i choose to... I control who gets what. And they get kingdom titles or duchies at least so they are still happy despite -75 modifier...

[Arson]

Originally posted by EA Latium:

Originally posted by Arson:

If a title is created for them do I not get a claim on it?

You won't indeed, even when split by law. One of the reasons why cousin marriages were common.

If I have 2 Kingdoms and a few uncreated Duchy Titles, do I really care to create them?

[Eddie Latium]

Originally posted by Arson:

If I have 2 Kingdoms and a few uncreated Duchy Titles, do I really care to create them?

It could be advantageous in that case, as Direct Count Vassals still have the "not De Jure liege" and it's easier to manage let's say 6 Dukes rather than 18 Counts.

If your character is old already may be worth waiting, as creating new Titles give quite some Prestige and Granting Titles a huge relationship boost, making a succession much smoother.

[Xplosive]

you dont even need to change succession laws at all. just disinherit the worst male heirs.

[CrUsHeR]

Originally posted by Xplosive:

you dont even need to change succession laws at all. just disinherit the worst male heirs.

At that point you probably should be playing EU 4 instead.