Adopting FEUDALISM - Why Drama?

[CrUsHeR]

So, finally i also played a Tribal start long enough to adopt Feudalism for the first time. 1058 A.D. following Rurik in the 867 bookmark. Seems more or less hardcoded to arrive close to 1066, since several neighboring tribals had exactly the same progress. TBH i can't understand all the drama and whining at all.



This is a screenshot from just before upgrading - note the resource bar:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2231106552



And this one is exactly 1 year after:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2231107184



Armies in the "before" image came just out of a war, so they would be quite a bit more.
In the "after" image, i actually had disbanded 1 MAA regiment to get into positive income. But no severe loss in total troop strength. Also the various upgrades from castles give a kickstart to MAA effectiveness.

Income drop looks pretty tough, but it will take 4 more years until 12 (twelve!) new cities and bishoprics will be built. Not counting the castle upgrades which go much faster. And those are just those in my domain, with plenty of more empty space.

Also at that point you get a boatload of ransom and hook money just from arresting criminals and blackmailing. Even though this is not a reliable income source.

[Ruffio]

If you prepare for it, it's not such a huge issue. Like raid enough so you got a healthy war chest going into feudal age. Able to start spam building cities, temples, castles and some upgrades. Having 10k or more in the bank when you go feudal as a raiding tribe, shouldn't be that hard to achieve. Have your king lead a raiding party will also trigger events for extra loot etc. Just don't want a king that is just, compasionate etc. He get stressed the hell out from that. Annoying you can't raid with your heir so he to can get the viking trait too though. Can raid with him as a leader, just he wont get the trait.

[Carog the Fat]

its is from people who were unaware they would lose all thier buildings and werent prepared, l;ive and learn basicly

[gidro]

I think two things helped you :

- You're really big. It's like what, 3 or 4 empires ? So even if your income drops you're still making money, most players who go feudal risk being between 0 and 1 gold per month after 1 year. Same thing for your troops, doing the transition with smaller numbers put you at risk, with neighbours staying tribal and suddenly as powerfull as you, or even more.

- You saved enough money to develop your domain and if needed buy merc. Seems obvious but if everybody did that, we would ear less whining about feudal. As feudal our own domain is even more important, and after the transition is too late to think about funding, even for a huge empire like yours, you don't build much with 10 a month.

But I agree, the transition is not that hard. Some people don't know the game enough yet and are panicking, or need to lash out because their game has been ruined. Now they know, they won't make the same mistake twice. Pretty much how we learned CK in the past...

It's nice that you showed it can be done on the worst territory you can pick. Did you have some feudal vassals before the change ? Don't think so, or very few. Another option, with a smaller domain, is to conquer some feudal land for yourself, that way you don't waste 4/5 years building temples and cities and immediatly start with the buildings.

[Putt Blug]

From what I understood people are saying that when you go from tribal to feudal you LOSE buildings? What a stupid mechanic, isn't going feudal supposed to be helpful to you, what's the purpose if you need to already be OP so that you'll be able to take a massive hit?

[gidro]

Messaggio originale di Pastor LuL:

From what I understood people are saying that when you go from tribal to feudal you LOSE buildings? What a stupid mechanic, isn't going feudal supposed to be helpful to you, what's the purpose if you need to already be OP so that you'll be able to take a massive hit?

Not OP, smart and prepared is enough. He could have done the same thing with only one empire, but he would have less troops and some interesting fights ahead of him.

I don't know if feudal can be called helpful. You could do a world conquest as tribal probably, I don't see why not. But you'll be missing a big part of the game, stuck with tribal tech and not building anything for the rest of the game...

The transition in interesting. Where would be the fun if we went from OP tribal ( because they all are at first, regardless of their size ) to OP feudal in one click ? With a smaller empire, it's 50 interesting years to play before going back to map painting.

[VoiD]

CK2 made it so all the investiment wasn't worthless, but the transition was always painful.

Every 2 levels of tribal buildings would be converted into 1 level of a feudal building.

So let's say you had a level 4 tribal market, when you went feudal you would get a level 2 feudal market in your castles, which is great because it's a LOT cheaper to build level 4 tribal markets, and level 2 feudal markets made a LOT more money than tribal ones.

Here it's the opposite, you get way less from your vassals as a feudal, and this will not change through the game, you lose all of your investiments and the sucession isn't much/any better anyway, so there is no upside.

[CrUsHeR]

Okay i finally also noticed what people meant.

I kept this huge troop size and it kept growing. But this only was the case until my ruler died.

Suddenly i was down to 6k total troop strength (from around 55k). Even one of the brothers in this sucession still had 15k, despite him being a vassal under me, holding only 1 county and 2 kingdoms.
Then he died and i inherited all his stuff, which didn't increase my troops at all.

So i assume this can only be a bug.

Took a few decades to get back to 20k, but these 20k can brutally massacre Tribal armies of much larger sizes.