Why cant't I negotiate an alliance?

[ZeratulR]

I'm king of Ireland. My daughter is matrilinealy betrohed to a grandson of Holy Roman emperor. According to CK3 wiki that is supposed to give me an option to negotiate an alliance with HRE emperor: "Two Close Family members of the two rulers are married or betrothed to each other". But when I right click the emperor, the button "negotiate alliance" is not there. Why is that?

[Wanderer]

You should marry one of his kids. If you are in the marriage window you will see if there will be an alliance.

[Dragster6681]

Maybe the fact that is a grandson means he is not classed as a close family member.

[RodHull]

Hold on what? I thought alliances were automatic now

[Dragster6681]

If I want a marriage with an alliance I normally use the filters and add alliance as a requirement, then I'll sort by alliance power and take it from there to see which is the best for my Ruler.

[Team Triss]

Yeah if you're doing it by marriage it should be automatic and you should see the HRE banner in your character window under Diplomacy.

There's a perk under the Diplomacy tree to negotiate them without marriage, and I think you can negotiate them with siblings and other family members always, but if you married off your son to his granddaughter you should already be in an alliance.

[Slimane]

Yep. Ive had the same thing happen to me. I married my Son/heir to the daughte/heir of Leon. She died in childbirth before becoming queen, giving the titles to my grandson.

But then I didn't have the option to ally him or protect him from the 101 wars he faced afterwards. He gained half a dozen bad traits like kinslayer, incestuous, flagelant etc. And now that my son (his father) gt the throne, HE STILL REFUSES AN ALLIANCE because hes got a "claim" on my Empire title.

And because he refused to ally because of that claim on my title (even tho I had at least 10 times his troops and money and that he and his son are next in line for the throne) he lost almost everything and I'll be playing as one of the worst characters I've ever seen.

Oh and I also can't educate his children because he says that would be in a foreign court. So I'll probably have 2 generations of imbeciles to play as thank to that.

We should be able to make alliances with our Grandsons. Especially if those are down the line to inherit eveything you have...

Never EVER let your heir be independent in any way shape or form.

[ZeratulR]

Ok, so I was mislead by the wiki which currently says (not for long though, I'm going to edit it if I can) that: "An Alliance is created automatically between two characters who are married. In addition two Rulers can negotiate an Alliance if one of the following requirements are met:
...
* Two Close Family members of the two rulers are married or betrothed to each other".

Apparently, when two close family members of two rulers marry or get betrothed, it creates an alliance between those rulers automatically and you can see whether the marriage will result in an alliance on the marriage proposal screen.

Close family only consists of sons, daughters, siblings and probably parents (in case your mother is a widower). Grandkids, nephews and nieces, uncles and aunts are no good for the alliances.

"Negotiate alliance" button only appears on the character interaction screen in two cases: when you have the defensive negotiations perk or when you click on the portrait of your landed close family member (btw, I think that in latter case, it doesn't matter if the relative in question is independent, your vassal or somebody else's vassal, you can create an alliance regardless).

Well, it's good to know, thanks everybody for their input!

Originally posted by Thought Criminal:

Yep. Ive had the same thing happen to me. I married my Son/heir to the daughte/heir of Leon. She died in childbirth before becoming queen, giving the titles to my grandson.

But then I didn't have the option to ally him or protect him from the 101 wars he faced afterwards. He gained half a dozen bad traits like kinslayer, incestuous, flagelant etc. And now that my son (his father) gt the throne, HE STILL REFUSES AN ALLIANCE because hes got a "claim" on my Empire title.

And because he refused to ally because of that claim on my title (even tho I had at least 10 times his troops and money and that he and his son are next in line for the throne) he lost almost everything and I'll be playing as one of the worst characters I've ever seen.

Oh and I also can't educate his children because he says that would be in a foreign court. So I'll probably have 2 generations of imbeciles to play as thank to that.

We should be able to make alliances with our Grandsons. Especially if those are down the line to inherit eveything you have...

Never EVER let your heir be independent in any way shape or form.

Can't you just disinherit your grandson (or probably son, at the moment)?