How can I increase the size of a holy knight order?

[|Nick]

I did found one, but it's rather small. Can I improve it somehow?

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

Doesn't seem so, mine hasn't grown at all in 40 years and you can't build any buildings in their leased city for them.

If I had to do it again, I'd give them a city with buildings and see if that did anything, but I'm not sure because the head of the Order doesn't seem to be even getting the base income of the city at all, he had zero income and has been steady at 50 gold since he took over after the old leader died, who had 150 gold for his whole life.

Thought about maybe gifting them gold and seeing if that did anything. Seems kind of under-implemented.

[|Nick]

I have 5k men at arms, 25k levies...
1k free men at arms from an order is not thaaaat good...

[Wraith]

I think they randomly ask to expand.
I had a holy order I created tell me they need another city and so I just gave it to them.

[Crim]

Originally posted by Nick:

I have 5k men at arms, 25k levies...
1k free men at arms from an order is not thaaaat good...

They also help your neighbors

Great for when you don't want to other with the small stuff

[Mad Max]

Holy Orders give you a small amount of Free Soldiers sure.

But in my game they were giving me 750 Gold every few years just to move to different cities occasionally. That's worth it right there.

[dulany67]

Question, as I haven't founded one yet, what happens to the order if you convert?

[Mad Max]

Originally posted by dulany67:

Question, as I haven't founded one yet, what happens to the order if you convert?

They wont help you in Wars anymore, but will still pay you for moving around as they are still in your house.

[|Nick]

Originally posted by dulany67:

Question, as I haven't founded one yet, what happens to the order if you convert?

It still exists afaik, but you can't use it anymore. They still have your city, but you can take it afaik.

[dulany67]

Thanks

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

Just posted this on another topic:

Originally posted by =яενєηąŋŧ=:

Okay, so here's what I got:

Granting the County or Duchy with the Holy Order headquarters in it to a vassal does nothing, you're still the patron as the Top Realm.

Granting independence to the spot where the Holy Order is makes you no longer the Patron, and you can found a new one.

Revoking the lease of the Holy Order causes you to no longer be the Patron and lets you create a new one, but the old Holy Order will be destroyed permanently if it doesn't have any other holdings.

Granting a Holy Order a Castle instead of a City does give them income, but they don't seem to do anything with it. Also, there doesn't seem to be any difference between the forces they get compared to a city. Still 2 Knights, 300 Order Knights, and about 1,000 levies.

Granting them a Castle with a Barracks in it doesn't give them any more Men-at-arms or levies. It also doesn't improve their Order Knights heavy infantry Men-at-arms.

You can gift them gold and they'll spend it almost immediately, but it doesn't seem to do anything. Gave the Grandmaster over 1k and he spent it on *something*, but didn't get any additional troops. He also didn't build any new buildings in his leased holding.

So, there doesn't seem to be any way to make them better, and one holding seems to be just as good as any other.

Originally posted by =яενєηąŋŧ=:

Only beneficial thing I learned was that if you have some non-de-Jure territory you were planning on giving away anyway, you can found a Holy Order there first to have an extra Holy Order in existence for your faith and still create another, but I think that's of pretty dubious value.

The one I created got hired out to Catholics fighting Heathens, but didn't seem to put a dent in the unstoppable Swedish Horde, and the renter still used them to fight other Catholics. Grandmaster spent a significant amount of time in the King of West Francia's dungeon, lol.

You could probably become the Patron of multiple Holy Orders early on by creating them in non-de-Jure counties, granting them independence, then re-conquering them, but probably not worth the effort because they're basically hot garbage.

[|Nick]

I still like to keep one as a pet though.
What happens if the grandmaster is imprisoned?
Can I still hire the order?

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

Originally posted by Nick:

I still like to keep one as a pet though.
What happens if the grandmaster is imprisoned?
Can I still hire the order?

Nah, he was still hired by whoever was fighting West Francia. That's another big pain in the ass, the AI scoops them up the second they become available so you never get to hire them yourself. Was literally sitting there with a war going and the Holy Order tab open to see if I could get them, but the *second* their current contract ended, someone else grabbed them.

That's another downside. Mercs cost a lot of money that only a few people can afford, but seems like every random latrine scrubber from West Francia to East Overshoe is sitting on enough piety to hire a Holy Order to kill their neighbor's dog, provided said dog is a pagan.

[|Nick]

If your create your own faction and your vassals flip, they can get trouble with their vassals. If it's a relgius war they can hire the knights, and for a duke 1k of troops can win a war.
So they are indirectly directly after creating a faith usefull to you

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

Originally posted by Nick:

If your create your own faction and your vassals flip, they can get trouble with their vassals. If it's a relgius war they can hire the knights, and for a duke 1k of troops can win a war.
So they are indirectly directly after creating a faith usefull to you

Reminds me. Noticed peasant revolts seem to count as a war against heathens, even in wholly-Catholic nations. They accounted for about half the hirings I saw as far as I could tell. Weird.

[Emplodinglemon]

its weird cause i see youtubers that are fighing ai with like 6k holy order troops