Infidelity and cheating spouses.

[granim]

Can the number of people who cheat on their spouses be toned down quite a bit. It is insane.

[Messsucher]

Mentioned in another thread that one "research" said 40% of people has cheated their spouse, men more than women. CK3 in line with this?

Also to add something new here, we can't know how it affected some women back then when they heard rumor of someone having hard 8 incher. I would guess they wanted to at least see it or something.

[Gorgeous_Joe]

Originally posted by meiam:

Imagine you spent your entire time with literally no need to work, except there's almost no form of distraction available, no TV, no Radio, very few books (if you can read). The only things there are in abundance are people your age (but no contraception). Oh also if you're the queen you're literally expected to produce baby and if you don't you may end up getting killed even if it's entirely you're husband fault. Is it that surprising everyone cheat?

From a gameplay point of view, they've invested a lot in the secret/hook system, so they need lots of secret to be generated.

---------------
Sounds like my youth growing up

[GaiusLaenas]

Originally posted by Messsucher:

Mentioned in another thread that one "research" said 40% of people has cheated their spouse, men more than women. CK3 in line with this?

Why do people keep trying to use modern statistics, whose accuracy is questionable, and applying it to an era of vastly different Faith, morals and honor?

[Messsucher]

Originally posted by GaiusLaenas:

Originally posted by Messsucher:

Mentioned in another thread that one "research" said 40% of people has cheated their spouse, men more than women. CK3 in line with this?

Why do people keep trying to use modern statistics, whose accuracy is questionable, and applying it to an era of vastly different Faith, morals and honor?

To get some perspective? It is not like medieval people were unable to cheat. And if marriages were commonly arranged there might have been at times big desire to get sex from one you are interested of or even secretly love. People do crazy things when in love or when they desire someone a lot. Maybe two people who wanted each other but could not do it good were just looking for a good chance to do it anytime, anywhere? That's anyway how lowe and things work.

[PJ]

Originally posted by meiam:

Imagine you spent your entire time with literally no need to work, except there's almost no form of distraction available, no TV, no Radio, very few books (if you can read). The only things there are in abundance are people your age (but no contraception). Oh also if you're the queen you're literally expected to produce baby and if you don't you may end up getting killed even if it's entirely you're husband fault. Is it that surprising everyone cheat?

From a gameplay point of view, they've invested a lot in the secret/hook system, so they need lots of secret to be generated.

You are assuming that women back then were just free to do whatever they wanted. They were not. Especially not Queens, who would've been watched 24/7 by their ladies in waiting and other court members who were, for the most part, spying on her.

[meiam]

Originally posted by GaiusLaenas:

Originally posted by meiam:

Imagine you spent your entire time with literally no need to work, except there's almost no form of distraction available, no TV, no Radio, very few books (if you can read). The only things there are in abundance are people your age (but no contraception). Oh also if you're the queen you're literally expected to produce baby and if you don't you may end up getting killed even if it's entirely you're husband fault. Is it that surprising everyone cheat?

People who have never had tv, radio or many books won't miss them. They did have oral stories and were far more physically active than the lazy fat people of today. Also, your entire summary leaves out that they lived in an age of true religious belief and thus were in fear for their immortal souls if they committed mortal sins. The amount of cheating and the amount of atheist characters in this game is simply ludicrous and indicative at the least of bad design.

It's not about missing those things, it's about doing something with your time, there were simply very few entertainment options. Sex was just the most readily available option.

Also religious belief are extremely flexible things, its really easy to ignore them. If you actually look it up most ruler had mistress, if we know about it today, hundred if not thousands of years later, they knew about back then and probably had way more that we just don't know about. People weren't actually that religious too, for a long period of its history christianity was communicated only in latin, meaning people had very vague idea of the rules. Plus, you know, ruler were pretty powerful, the church wasn't going to try and start a religious war over a ruler cheating on their spouse.

[Crim]

The game straight up tells you who is inclined to cheat on you
I played for over 300 years before I had a wife cheat on me and even then it was still my son because he had congenital traits that the cheater didn't.

Marries a Deceitful, Lustful, Seducer and wonders that they are cheating...

[Flyan!]

Originally posted by Messsucher:

Originally posted by GaiusLaenas:

Why do people keep trying to use modern statistics, whose accuracy is questionable, and applying it to an era of vastly different Faith, morals and honor?

To get some perspective? It is not like medieval people were unable to cheat. And if marriages were commonly arranged there might have been at times big desire to get sex from one you are interested of or even secretly love. People do crazy things when in love or when they desire someone a lot. Maybe two people who wanted each other but could not do it good were just looking for a good chance to do it anytime, anywhere? That's anyway how lowe and things work.

These aren't arguments. Nobody here has suggested that people just never cheated in the middle ages, or that it should be flat out removed from the game. People just want it to be possible to have a wife who doesn't cheat. Why does my honest, trusting, 100 opinion soulmate wife cheat on me? Every single one of my heirs ends up either a bastard or has disputed heritage. I'm not going to throw a hissy fit if some of my heirs are bastards or have disputed heritage, it's the nature of the game, but literally every single one no matter how much I butter up my wife with honest traits? No.

[Messsucher]

I imagine it would had been very sad life to be in practice like home arrest and live & breed with someone who you could not be a least bit interested of, but doing it gracefully because you were raised to be a noble. I would imagine all that made you just more eager to jump on bed with partners you were fond of, to get something real. And even though nobles were very privileged and surely understood it, it does not change the fact their position was also just normal entitlement and they for sure were not thanking god every other hour of how lucky they were in life.

No, they were bored, irritated, lustful, they were normal people, with one serious caveat, must have sex with someone you could as well think is an idiot. And again, they were normal people. So imagine how strong feelings they could get when they felt that they are in love to someone they think is special? I doubt everyone was able to contain themselves, more so because everyone knew the name of the game.

[Messsucher]

Somehow the tone in this discussion is very CK2 godmode tone, meaning that everyone supposes dukes and what not were all powerful deities in their castles.

It does not work that way. I can tell you how it worked.

- Daddy.
- Yes son.
- Mary did it.
*silence*
- I understand son.
*silence*
- Elisabeth did the same regularly.
*silence*
- You know, that's just life.

If someone cheated a war did not start. The issue would had been most of the time hush-hushed because or political concerns and personal relationships. If you killed your seductress charisma 18 wife because she cheated you, then you would had been hated by most of your servants and people, making it not impossible that an accident happened to you.

[Nats]

Originally posted by granim:

Can the number of people who cheat on their spouses be toned down quite a bit. It is insane.

Yeah its as if they based the whole game on Blackadder. I am enjoying a lot of the game but its very spicy for a supposed historical game!

[GaiusLaenas]

It's not about missing those things, it's about doing something with your time, there were simply very few entertainment options. Sex was just the most readily available option.

That's your problem though. You can only imagine being bored because of not having the entertainment conveniences of our times, while the people who actually lived through these times knew of a wide array of creative ways to occupy themselves that didn't involve sex. The way you talk about it, there would be an unending list of adulterers in these times throughout history with the Church burning unfaithful wives left and right.

Also religious belief are extremely flexible things, its really easy to ignore them. If you actually look it up most ruler had mistress, if we know about it today, hundred if not thousands of years later, they knew about back then and probably had way more that we just don't know about. People weren't actually that religious too, for a long period of its history christianity was communicated only in latin, meaning people had very vague idea of the rules. Plus, you know, ruler were pretty powerful, the church wasn't going to try and start a religious war over a ruler cheating on their spouse.

Except religious beliefs to actual believers are not flexible and interchangeable things. It's obvious that you have no comprehension of the level of Faith these people had at this time and how it was the central aspect of their lives and that which gave them their identity, more than nationality, more than race, more than culture.

Sure, provide the source that shows most rulers had mistresses during this era. No one is claiming there wasn't any adultery at all, but the absurd and completely ahistorical level in game is laughable and immersion breaking for anyone who has studied this period.

And your claim that people weren't religious because religious services were done in Latin shows you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. The Church educated people throughout these centuries and the rules of the Faith were quite clear, especially among the people of the social level that are dealt with in game. Rulers were very powerful, but they were not as powerful as the Church. Excommunication and interdict by the Church were greater threats to the power of the monarch than any internal threat.

I really don't think you understand this time at all and are just regurgitating what you heard in school or on the internet while using your modern basis to apply back to these people.

[Flyan!]

Originally posted by Nats:

Originally posted by granim:

Can the number of people who cheat on their spouses be toned down quite a bit. It is insane.

Yeah its as if they based the whole game on Blackadder. I am enjoying a lot of the game but its very spicy for a supposed historical game!

They could fix it pretty easily, too. Just make it so dread encourages people to follow your laws. That way executing people who commit criminal acts actually discourages it.

[Nats]

Originally posted by Messsucher:

I imagine it would had been very sad life to be in practice like home arrest and live & breed with someone who you could not be a least bit interested of, but doing it gracefully because you were raised to be a noble. I would imagine all that made you just more eager to jump on bed with partners you were fond of, to get something real. And even though nobles were very privileged and surely understood it, it does not change the fact their position was also just normal entitlement and they for sure were not thanking god every other hour of how lucky they were in life.

No, they were bored, irritated, lustful, they were normal people, with one serious caveat, must have sex with someone you could as well think is an idiot. And again, they were normal people. So imagine how strong feelings they could get when they felt that they are in love to someone they think is special? I doubt everyone was able to contain themselves, more so because everyone knew the name of the game.

So in other words just like the royal family in the UK today then lol.

[Messsucher]

Originally posted by Nats:

Originally posted by Messsucher:

I imagine it would had been very sad life to be in practice like home arrest and live & breed with someone who you could not be a least bit interested of, but doing it gracefully because you were raised to be a noble. I would imagine all that made you just more eager to jump on bed with partners you were fond of, to get something real. And even though nobles were very privileged and surely understood it, it does not change the fact their position was also just normal entitlement and they for sure were not thanking god every other hour of how lucky they were in life.

No, they were bored, irritated, lustful, they were normal people, with one serious caveat, must have sex with someone you could as well think is an idiot. And again, they were normal people. So imagine how strong feelings they could get when they felt that they are in love to someone they think is special? I doubt everyone was able to contain themselves, more so because everyone knew the name of the game.

So in other words just like the royal family in the UK today then lol.

Good point, think about Princess Diana.