Best Barony holding to build?

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

Anybody figure out the best holding to build in empty county slots? In CK2 it was cities hands-down for the tax income, but here in CK3 my mayors all make me <0.1 gold per month and exactly 7 troops each.

Bishoprics seem decent, but they're finicky depending on if your bishop likes you or not, and I still can't tell if the money I get from them in the ledger is just from the ones in my domain or the the entire realm. If it's the domain, they're a sure bet, but I really can't tell. Also I noticed half of my bishop vassals building barracks instead of economic buildings, which is a head-scratcher because they don't provide troops at all as far as I can tell.

Finally there's castles. If it's like CK2, an extra barony-level castle in your county counts as another domain holding unless you give it away, but I figure they'd be about as good as having another direct vassal count because nothing else gives me jack for tax and troops (most of my counts give 0.2 tax and 70-100 troops with no buildings built), so that may be an option. Also more for enemies to siege down.

Anyone play around with this yet? Getting most of my building slots maxed then it's a long wait to the next tech tier so I'll have money to spend, just want to get the best returns.

[Scrotum Scratcher]

castles seem like the best option. you can keep the holding for yourself, and you can build tax income buildings within the castle. decent amount of levies too

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

Originally posted by Scrotum Scratcher:

castles seem like the best option. you can keep the holding for yourself, and you can build tax income buildings within the castle. decent amount of levies too

Does the castle count as an extra domain slot if you hold it though?

[Artisan Alex]

Any holding that you personally run will count against your domain total, sadly.

I haven't tried this, but maybe if you jumped the gun before your bishop and filled the temples slots with what you wanted, the AI would just upgrade them? Regardless I think they do provide you with leves as well.

The best holding might also depend on religion. Keeping your bishop happy can be tricky like you said, but if you went full heretic and had a religion with Lay Clergy, you can suddenly hold temples with no issue. Then you could have the big economy and troop numbers by spamming those. If you lease temples out though, castles are better since you get the full income/troop count

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

So cities are just pretty worthless either way, huh? Kinda figured that, but what a shame.

[Crim]

The difference between the 3 are a lot closer than before
They can all have the exact same buildings with 1 exception

Castles and Temples all have the exact same ratio on Levies and Gold, with 0.1 GPM = 50 Levy. Tho there is a -25 Levy Penalty for no reason

So a T3 Temple = 1.3 GPM and 325 Levy
and a T3 Castle = 1 GPM and 475 Levy
As you can see, Temples make 0.3 more GPM, but 150 less Levy

So the rate of stuff you get is equal, do you prefer having slightly more troops or slightly more money?

Cities break this math by having a free 0.1 GPM per tier + 0.1 base
So a T3 City = 2 GPM and 175 Levy, 1 GPM = 500 Levy, so you would expect it compared to a Castle that it would basically have 0 Levy, but that's not the case. However if we consider the free 0.1, and compared it as if it were 1.6 GPM = 175 Levy

My guess is that Cities gain this free 0.1 GPM advantage because you can never personally hold a City


In the case of the 1 exclusive building -
Cities get +40% Development which is insanely powerful
Temples get Monasteries which is +0.8 PPM
Castles are a little more complex depending on Terrain
Forests = Levy
Hills = Super Forts
Plains = Cash Money
Whatever is left = Crappy Supply Limit

[mitchincredible]

I remember stacking cities in CKII for godloads of money.

Don't think it works now, plus baron level vassals are way too OP in factions and the opinion penalty is still there.

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

Originally posted by Talamare:

In the case of the 1 exclusive building -
Cities get +40% Development which is insanely powerful
Temples get Monasteries which is +0.8 PPM

Do the churches only give the levies if they're your personal holding or direct vassal? I can't see that mine give me any via my bishop (Catholic).

As far as the piety from Monasteries goes, I don't see how that works for my advantage either. I've got Kent so I have the Canterbury Cathedral in my domain, but since it's not my direct holding I don't get any of the realm bonuses from it which seems to mean it's useless to hold as a Catholic, despite being a Holy Site...

[Crim]

Originally posted by =яενєηąŋŧ=:

Originally posted by Talamare:

In the case of the 1 exclusive building -
Cities get +40% Development which is insanely powerful
Temples get Monasteries which is +0.8 PPM

Do the churches only give the levies if they're your personal holding or direct vassal? I can't see that mine give me any via my bishop (Catholic).

As far as the piety from Monasteries goes, I don't see how that works for my advantage either. I've got Kent so I have the Canterbury Cathedral in my domain, but since it's not my direct holding I don't get any of the realm bonuses from it which seems to mean it's useless to hold as a Catholic, despite being a Holy Site...

If I remember correctly, Catholics are uniquely powerful in that they don't have to give you anything if they don't feel like it...

Never make a priest a duke

[=яενєηąŋŧ=]

I'm actually not sure if you can make a priest a Duke or Count, at least under Catholicism. I haven't tried, though.

I did make a Mayor a count entirely by accident by pressing a claim, but didn't seem to have much benefit. Same story for making a Merchant Republic vassal. Remember the CK2 days where giving a Mayor the Duchy of Mann was a guaranteed money printer, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

[Fuinril]

Originally posted by =яενєηąŋŧ=:

I'm actually not sure if you can make a priest a Duke or Count, at least under Catholicism. I haven't tried, though.

I did make a Mayor a count entirely by accident by pressing a claim, but didn't seem to have much benefit. Same story for making a Merchant Republic vassal. Remember the CK2 days where giving a Mayor the Duchy of Mann was a guaranteed money printer, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

In early CK2 not only was it not a money printer but it was a revolt centre. Republics was not always a thing

[AlexMBrennan]

I'm actually not sure if you can make a priest a Duke or Count, at least under Catholicism. I haven't tried, though.

Since this CK3 you don't get a say in the matter - the game will automatically generate a prince bishop for you to take all your money when you become king.

[Babarigo]

Unlike CK2 where I hated temples, now I only build them. If you have good relations with the realm priest they are for me way better than cities and baronies in terms of gold and levies.
In my current game as the king of Bohemia in 1000 something my best city vassal gives 0.5 gold per month and 14 levies. My realm priest has 14 temples, some are pretty recent so they lower the average which is still 0.75 gold per month and 265 levies. If I take the average citty income and levy it's 0.3 gold per month 9.66 levies.
The temples don't only give considerably more income but they actually provide levies. In my current game the temple holdings provide 30% of my total income and levies.
As for castles, they will perform similarly to temples in term of levies but are far away in terms of gold.

[Crim]

Originally posted by Babarigo:

Unlike CK2 where I hated temples, now I only build them. If you have good relations with the realm priest they are for me way better than cities and baronies in terms of gold and levies.
In my current game as the king of Bohemia in 1000 something my best city vassal gives 0.5 gold per month and 14 levies. My realm priest has 14 temples, some are pretty recent so they lower the average which is still 0.75 gold per month and 265 levies. If I take the average citty income and levy it's 0.3 gold per month 9.66 levies.
The temples don't only give considerably more income but they actually provide levies. In my current game the temple holdings provide 30% of my total income and levies.
As for castles, they will perform similarly to temples in term of levies but are far away in terms of gold.

Things get a little more complicated when you factor in Obligations

Even if a Temple, City, and Castle produced the exact same
1000 Levy and 1000 GPM
A City would give you 100 Levy and 200 GPM
The Castle would give you 200 Levy and 100 GPM

Those these numbers can be affected by other things as well, mainly opinion

Temples... Temples are weird
They tend to give you more Levy, but its also based on your Religion and your opinion with your Religious heads and other factors

[jfoytek]

Originally posted by =яενєηąŋŧ=:

Anybody figure out the best holding to build in empty county slots? In CK2 it was cities hands-down for the tax income, but here in CK3 my mayors all make me <0.1 gold per month and exactly 7 troops each.

Bishoprics seem decent, but they're finicky depending on if your bishop likes you or not, and I still can't tell if the money I get from them in the ledger is just from the ones in my domain or the the entire realm. If it's the domain, they're a sure bet, but I really can't tell. Also I noticed half of my bishop vassals building barracks instead of economic buildings, which is a head-scratcher because they don't provide troops at all as far as I can tell.

Finally there's castles. If it's like CK2, an extra barony-level castle in your county counts as another domain holding unless you give it away, but I figure they'd be about as good as having another direct vassal count because nothing else gives me jack for tax and troops (most of my counts give 0.2 tax and 70-100 troops with no buildings built), so that may be an option. Also more for enemies to siege down.

Anyone play around with this yet? Getting most of my building slots maxed then it's a long wait to the next tech tier so I'll have money to spend, just want to get the best returns.

First off saying Citys were the best hands down in CK2 is very much debatable and dependant on playstyle!

As for is there a correct holding to build in CK3 the answer is the same as CK2 No their isn't the holding you need to build will be dependant on your playstyle and what you need at that point in time....

[lubed_assassin]

cities are both better and worse in the long run. more gold less bonuses for troops. The bonuses for troops stack, you can see this playing tribal with a good steward character who has 12 lands running around with bowmen or spearmen who do 60 damage. The bonuses are even higher for non tribals, just takes planning.