My Empire Split on Succession Even Though I Only Had 1 Empire Title?

[atm]

OK am confused and need some help here. I felt like I had this game kind of figured out until this happened and my mouth was just hanging open.

I formed Deira into an Empire under Halfdan Whiteshirt (well technically his son), building an empire in the Brittish isles. Under the Empire of Deira were the kingdoms of England, Deira, Scotland, Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, and a couple of others in Scandinavia. I had the succession type of the Empire set to Saxon Elective (just checked to make sure, and yep, it is). I thought that meant that the title of Emperor would go to the elected Emperor on the previous Emperor's death. (??)

For some reason I can't understand, when my character died, the Empire split into Deira and Britannia. I know I had had the option to form Britannia but as I already had an Empire I chose not to do this. Deira comprised most, but not all of England, Scotland, and Wales, and Britannia ended up taking Ireland, Denmark, Sweden, and all the random lands elsewhere.

What on Earth did I do wrong here?

I am wondering if the second empire title was created as a result of confederate partition? But what doesn't make sense is that the Empire of Deira was set to Saxon Elective, not to confederate partition, and all of my lands, as far as I knew, were a part of the Empire of Deira.

Inheritance is seriously doing my head in :(



EDIT: Solved, for anyone having the same problem.

The problem was Confederate Partition, which at the early part of the game, you just can't do anything about. My exact situation was a strange one. The land of England/ Scotland/ Wales is a part of Britannia, but in my game was also Deira, and as such would remain united under the empire title of Deira. Ireland was also part of Britannia, but not a part of Deira. Because I had the kingdom of Ireland under me, it seemed I had enough pieces of the De Jure title of Britannia (once you counted the ones that were also part of Deira) to form the second Empire, which therefore would form as a result of the partition.
The fix (which seems really silly to me) was to grant Ireland independence just before the Emperor died, thereby stopping me from having enough of the kingdoms of Britannia to form that Empire.

The silliness of it is that Ireland was just one kingdom, out of the maybe eight or so that I possessed, but the game considered it part of the de jure Empire of Britannia, which meant that once I had Empire level titles with other parts of Britannia, then it was eligible to be split off into its own empire.

Had I known this would happen I would have disbanded Deira and formed Britannia instead but I didn't have the gold at the point of the auto save (having just repelled a crusade by the catholics against my Asatru religion).

Hopefully this helps someone. Personally I think this was a glitch (my Deiran kingdoms shouldn't also count as British kingdoms - they are Deira, dammit).

[DaniTheHero]

Although i do not know the answer to this, the "partition" feels like it ruins the game for many.

[atm]

I have been examining what happened from an auto save, just before the ruler's death.

If you look under Succession on your Realm tab, you can see a section that says 'From Confederate Partition', with titles that will be lost by the ruler due to the partition.

In my case it was kind of funny, since I controlled basically all of the British Isles and some of it was De Jure in the Emprire of Britannia but NOT in the De Jure Empire of Deira (my primary title) it meant that on my death it would split off the main title into two since there was room to make a second Empire title.

[Suisight]

Tbh, I did not entirely grasp how the succession laws of individual titles works. But there is this paragraph in the rule saying that new titles are created for younger children. And since a kingdom cannot be de jure part of two empires at once, some of your kingdoms are considered outside your primary title.
This is to avoid abuse of just not creating titles to screw with partition. In this constellation, you would always keep the empire, one kingdom in it, a duchy in this and your realm capital county. Anything else can be partitioned if you have enough children. And since some of this "anything else" is eligible to be an empire, it is created and handed out - becoming independent.

[LP Maiden]

Gavelkind for 400 years killing the game

[Mansen]

You're missing the part where any titles that CAN be created WILL be created upon your death. You need to change your succession type to avoid this, which is available fairly fast.

Until then... Either don't conquer all of Scandinavia, if that isn't your home empire. Because then one of your heir's siblings will become their own emperor/empress.

Until you can do this, you just gotta batten down and get ready to retake the second title every succession. Which shouldn't be TOO hard if you do it fast and early and grab some allies.

[Suisight]

Originally posted by Maiden:

Gavelkind for 400 years killing the game

There is a mod allowing primogenioture from the start. And I guess when starting as feudal, you can get high partition faster. Or start in 1066.

I also like to start as early as possible to have the maximum freedom. The restrictions coming with this is a quite effective way to stop players from burning through Europe in the first era.

[Mansen]

Players - And AI. Because stable kingdoms weren't really a thing in this era till the later years.

[Suisight]

Originally posted by Mansen:

Players - And AI. Because stable kingdoms weren't really a thing in this era till the later years.

True. Allthough I'd wish this would be caused more endogenously, e.g. by more aggressive vassals. Byzantium for example seems to be extremely stable. Even after a murder spree along their line, I couldn't disrupt their grip on southern France in my game. No vassal grew some and demanded independence from their far-away wrong-cultured, wrong religion child liege.

[lubed_assassin]

yoou can use your councelor to speed up the de jure part.

[Suisight]

Originally posted by lubed_assassin:

yoou can use your councelor to speed up the de jure part.

Yes, but to drift something takes about 50 years when you speed it up (at least for duchies). So you won't eliminate an empire in your lifetime. If kingdoms drift at all in CK3.

[atm]

Originally posted by Mansen:

You're missing the part where any titles that CAN be created WILL be created upon your death. You need to change your succession type to avoid this, which is available fairly fast.

Until then... Either don't conquer all of Scandinavia, if that isn't your home empire. Because then one of your heir's siblings will become their own emperor/empress.

Until you can do this, you just gotta batten down and get ready to retake the second title every succession. Which shouldn't be TOO hard if you do it fast and early and grab some allies.

Yeah - see my edit on original post where I figured it out :( Because I had empire level titles, and all the pieces required for Britannia, confederate partition was then able to literally hand half my Empire to some grandson with no holdings. I was like WHAAAT???? Now, though, I know where to look to see what will happen.

Fortunately I was able to find a way to avoid this with my auto save. By giving up Ireland, my Empire title remained intact after my death, since there was no other de jure empire I was eligible to form.

SOOOO COMPLICATED!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LP Maiden]

Originally posted by Mansen:

Players - And AI. Because stable kingdoms weren't really a thing in this era till the later years.

I know. But the gavelkind comes from Franks. So why my viking ruler got it? They used to elect their ruler by election from the nobles, not splitting territories between sons

[Suisight]

Originally posted by Maiden:

Originally posted by Mansen:

Players - And AI. Because stable kingdoms weren't really a thing in this era till the later years.

I know. But the gavelkind comes from Franks. So why my viking ruler got it? They used to elect their ruler by election from the nobles, not splitting territories between sons

You can set scandinavian elective rules on individual titles. Cost prestige.

[Suisight]

Originally posted by atm:

dings. I was like WHAAAT???? Now, though, I know where to look to see what will happen.

Fortunately I was able to find a way to avoid this with my auto save. By giving up Ireland, my Empire title remained intact after my death, since there was no other de jure empire I was eligible to form.

On the other hand, having another independent emperor is really good for your renown. And maybe you aren't really weaker after "losing" this part. When I played as Pomerania, I actually handed out two adjacent kingdoms on purpose and allianced one. Works quite good.

[atm]

Originally posted by Suisight:

Originally posted by atm:

dings. I was like WHAAAT???? Now, though, I know where to look to see what will happen.

Fortunately I was able to find a way to avoid this with my auto save. By giving up Ireland, my Empire title remained intact after my death, since there was no other de jure empire I was eligible to form.

On the other hand, having another independent emperor is really good for your renown. And maybe you aren't really weaker after "losing" this part. When I played as Pomerania, I actually handed out two adjacent kingdoms on purpose and allianced one. Works quite good.

Yeah I was half tempted just to keep playing with my empire split up, but the feeling of losing what felt like two thirds of what I had built up was just so disappointing. It was easier to just let go of Ireland.