So the cheating AI is insane.

[Albert Minigolf]

Holy hell, they pull armies out of there ass going from 400 to 3000 superior quality.

I can handle the bad UI, and the worse map layout but they essentially made wars impossible unless you have 2k gold

[Bordric]

You are missing allies are mercs. Simple as that.

[Albert Minigolf]

Originally posted by Bearded Warrior:

The AI doesn't cheat it's not Warcraft, like many suggested he was either raiding or has more powerful allies... or he had more gold than you pretend... or you hit a glitch that I've never seen before.

It reminds me of age of wonders 3 AI on max difficulty tbh lol

[Alzar]

Originally posted by Bordric:

You are missing allies are mercs. Simple as that.

Maybe their allies had a lot of gold?

[Mjnsk]

Are you considering your opponent's faith? He can raise funds for your campaign just like you.

[burtod]

I will fight against AI armies on the map larger than what is stated under the war information or the AI leader's force information. Including his allies.

I don't mind it too much, as long as the numbers in the different locations agreed!

[Albert Minigolf]

Originally posted by Mjnsk:

Are you considering your opponent's faith? He can raise funds for your campaign just like you.

I have not. Can you do that as norse early start?

[Erebus]

Allies. Mercs. Holy Orders. Special Event Troops. Etc.

Plus gold he or any of his allies may have.

Plus new allies or region changes that may have happened during war.

[rebelbebel]

that is every strategy game ever. It will always be until the AI becomes as smart as a player.

[Night]

Originally posted by Royal_Wolf_1996:

Originally posted by Mjnsk:

Are you considering your opponent's faith? He can raise funds for your campaign just like you.

I have not. Can you do that as norse early start?

provide a save game.

There are tons of reasons why this could happen in game.

I, personally, have tested this and found your claims false.

I went to war with the byzantine empire and made sure they had no allies and -1000 gold.

They weren't even able to raise armies.




The AI plays by the same rules here. Something happened that you didn't foresee or are simply not willing to see.


They either had a holy order/special troops/allies (they can even get allies in the middle of a war)/ a mercenary contract that hadn't expired yet (don't forget they don't keep paying for mercenary contracts, you pay once and it lasts like 2 years).

There's also the faith aspect. There are MANY dials you can turn here to get what you need to fight a war even if your nation is otherwise in ruins (see: the holy roman empire in actual history).


Just because you look at their empire sheet and see a negative amount of gold and low troops doesn't mean they can't use one of their other strengths.



Modders have already determined this, the AI in this game doesn't cheat (and why would it? it's not a game meant for you to 'win'). If you're losing a war or a kingdom/empire surprised you with more troops you got outwitted by the AI, simple as that.

[Night]

Originally posted by rebelbebel:

that is every strategy game ever. It will always be until the AI becomes as smart as a player.

This is actually not true.
After all, nobody can beat OpenAI at pretty much any game at this point.

The difference between CK 3 and other strategy games is the game isn't aiming to give the player all they need to make the best decision.

By this I mean you don't know absolutely everything about an AI kingdom/empire just by looking at their stats sheet.


Civ (by comparison) is meant to be 'won' and you are meant to try and be first (for example). CK 3 is not built that way and so it is drastically easier to build a competitive AI in a simulation environment than in one where the player knows all of the AI numbers and secrets.


A *ton* of work was put into the AI here to allow it to be able to compete within the games rules as anyone who has taken a peek under the games hood can attest to.


It is the benefit you get with paradox games. They focus on AI and characters in their games, not flashy battles or sweeping vistas (outside of a great looking map).


In return, you get extremely deep AI that can opporate on par with the player (in most cases, some people in the community are born to rule and have the AI wrapped around their finger).

It's not perfect, but the AI in paradox games is *some* of the best in the industry.

[Alzar]

Upload your save file.

[AlienWired]

Originally posted by Royal_Wolf_1996:

Originally posted by Bahzi:

Did he have allies?

He had 400, he had 2 allies of 200 troops each and 60 gold or so.

I also had 2 allies both with 600 troops and I had 1400 troops

I was defending with 4 champions and superior quality, 1400 guys, he attacked with 400, started losing to 300 and jumped up to 3000. This has happened twice.

Keep in mind I've played ck2 probably 300 hours or so.

Did the Allies have gold? =) Allies hate to lose. Allies can hire Mercs as well.

560+ hours CK2 here.

[Night]

Originally posted by AlienWired:

Originally posted by Royal_Wolf_1996:

He had 400, he had 2 allies of 200 troops each and 60 gold or so.

I also had 2 allies both with 600 troops and I had 1400 troops

I was defending with 4 champions and superior quality, 1400 guys, he attacked with 400, started losing to 300 and jumped up to 3000. This has happened twice.

Keep in mind I've played ck2 probably 300 hours or so.

Did the Allies have gold? =) Allies hate to lose.

if it jumped up to 3000 it's probably mercenary troops.

Even if he was broke his allies might not be.

There's also holy orders.

There's also just their marshals ability to recruit troops.


A marshals recruit ability is based on percentages.


There's just too many variables here to make this claim without providing a save file.

As someone who's dug through the code there is zero evidence that the AI cheats at all.


Keep in mind if the AI's leader personality is in line they will literally sacrifice their own realm to win.


Meaning even if they had only 80 gold they can still go in debt just to win.


There are even things they'll do mid war like re-negotiate all of their vassal contracts (if they can/haven't been negotiated) to provide more levies.


Depending on empire size this alone could account for what you see.





Say an empire only had 400 troops out of 4,000 normally. They're losing the war. The personality of the ruler may be programmed as such to then re-negotiate all vassal contracts that are eligable to provide more troops, even if this means irreversibly damaging their relationships.


Then they put the marshel on the recruit assignment to build up more troops.


The next time they marshal they could definitely raise that number from 400 to 4,000 in a matter of months.


hell, when my back was against the wall i've done it myself.
use all of my hooks to raise vassal obligations as much as possible, wait a month, hire a mercenary group and raise my armies.

Am i in debt and in trouble? completely, have I increased by troop count by 500%? also yes.

[AlienWired]

Originally posted by Night:

As someone who's dug through the code there is zero evidence that the AI cheats at all.

LOL!!!!!!

I have never "dug" through the code on any of these games, ever, and I used to program eggdrop bots. heh...

I guess I just didn't want to take the fun out of the game for me. Once I start, I just can't stop.. hehe..

[HR]

AI was probably playing with the next DLC while you’re so bad you didn’t even pay for the DLC.