Crusader Kings III

Crusader Kings III

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Grandson My Heir?
Can someone tell me why my grandson might be my heir? I have 3 other sons, but for some reason my dead eldest sons son is my heir.....lol
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Showing 1-15 of 15 comments
Le Syd Oct 18, 2020 @ 4:29pm 
I've noticed the same for most of my Tribal neighbors. It's as if the claim is inherited instead of redistributed. Seems like a bug but haven't seen any confirmation. I guess it's now considered a feature/exploit.
Lovecraft's Cat Oct 18, 2020 @ 4:34pm 
That's how it's supposed to be. Your 1st born son is your heir, and his 1st born son is his heir. So naturally, now your grandson is your heir.
Le Syd Oct 18, 2020 @ 4:48pm 
Bit cheaty that it totally circumvents partition no? Titles will be split between heirs of your 1st born. Shouldn't the 2nd gen heir only inherit titles that would've been effectively inherited?

In essence, you can completely avoid Tribal inheritance trouble by "offing" your 1st born when he's popped up a single heir...

Oh well, not a big deal...
CrUsHeR Oct 18, 2020 @ 5:25pm 
The oldest son of your (dead) firstborn son is treated as your firstborn son in the succession order. All other sons inherit as usual, and the siblings of your heir (the grandson) get nothing.

It's just that once you play your grandson, his heirs will be his siblings before his uncles.

TBH a nonsense decision just to make Partition artifically much harder than Gavelkind (and people really really hated that already in CK2). Gavelkind would simply remove grandchildren from the succession, since they can't inherit what their father didn't possess in the first place.

Only primogeniture is supposed to assume dead people as alive when determining the heir, which is also not a problem since you only have 1 heir.
Last edited by CrUsHeR; Oct 18, 2020 @ 7:30pm
someblk Oct 19, 2020 @ 12:25am 
Originally posted by Baerdwin:
Can someone tell me why my grandson might be my heir? I have 3 other sons, but for some reason my dead eldest sons son is my heir.....lol

Just to add to what everybody else already replied, this behaviour is consistent with modern day real life monarchies too. In example of the UK Monarchy, the next in line for the UK throne is Prince Charles. However if Prince Charles were to die before the Queen, then the next in line would become Prince William (his son) and not Prince Andrew (his brother).
LoCoSheSaid Oct 19, 2020 @ 5:51am 
I had exactly that happening to me - Grandson being heir - watch out though - in my case the grandson didnt get any of the title claims after partition happened, since they would only have gone to his father and Not further down the tree. Can mess you up bigtime if you dont have a kingtitle or higher yet. I was still a duke and had to fabricate all the claims again since not having a learning education either to for example get em easier with buying for piety....
NorPhi Oct 19, 2020 @ 6:26am 
It is a totally broken feature. Your Sons position in the line in succession is inherited, not his claims. The fathers claims are implicit, so somewhere along the line the game messes up.

Some people try to rationalise this with how modern monarchic succession works but this completely neglects the fact that those are a product of renaissance and early modern age, not the medieval period.
CrUsHeR Oct 19, 2020 @ 9:25am 
Originally posted by NorPhi:
It is a totally broken feature. Your Sons position in the line in succession is inherited, not his claims. The fathers claims are implicit, so somewhere along the line the game messes up.

Some people try to rationalise this with how modern monarchic succession works but this completely neglects the fact that those are a product of renaissance and early modern age, not the medieval period.

Indeed, primogeniture is lineage-based (the direct firstborn bloodline takes precedence), while partition is based on sharing the wealth and possessions equally among all sons.

That's why Gavelkind in CK2 was doing it right, and Partition in CK3 is wrong.
Red Dragon Oct 19, 2020 @ 9:31am 
Originally posted by CrUsHeR:
Originally posted by NorPhi:
It is a totally broken feature. Your Sons position in the line in succession is inherited, not his claims. The fathers claims are implicit, so somewhere along the line the game messes up.

Some people try to rationalise this with how modern monarchic succession works but this completely neglects the fact that those are a product of renaissance and early modern age, not the medieval period.

Indeed, primogeniture is lineage-based (the direct firstborn bloodline takes precedence), while partition is based on sharing the wealth and possessions equally among all sons.

That's why Gavelkind in CK2 was doing it right, and Partition in CK3 is wrong.

While I can't say that I liked Gavelkind in CK2 at least it made effin sense to me. I could look at my realm and in my head already knew pretty well how it would be divided. In CK3 it was horrible especially in the beginning, second and third heirs would inherit duchies including multiple counties and your firstborn would get the kingdom and one lousy county. Your 2nd and 3rd heirs would gain a lot land than the firstborn which was just bs.
Last edited by Red Dragon; Oct 19, 2020 @ 9:32am
Lovecraft's Cat Oct 19, 2020 @ 9:42am 
I dunno what yall talking about. Partition makes 100% sense from a personal point of view. I have x amount of sons and I want each of them to have a share of my stuff, with the 1st born simply being the first in line. Simple as that. It's as fair as it can be.
NorPhi Oct 19, 2020 @ 10:15am 
@ Red Dragon
They get multiple counties because those counties are in the duchies they inherit. Don't own any counties outside your primary title and they only get their duchy titles (I think the game also gives them the closest to the duchy capital that's in their new realm but they may just revoke a title).

@ Scyth
In those times they were less concerned about fairness than about keeping the house in power. Gavelkind worked on the premise, that the lesser sons demanded a heritage and would rally an army otherwise, thus the people of those times came up with various laws to keep those succession wars at a minimum as every succession war opened a realm up for the ambitions of foreign rulers.
Red Dragon Oct 19, 2020 @ 10:37am 
Originally posted by NorPhi:
@ Red Dragon
They get multiple counties because those counties are in the duchies they inherit. Don't own any counties outside your primary title and they only get their duchy titles (I think the game also gives them the closest to the duchy capital that's in their new realm but they may just revoke a title).
Nah Example: I just played as Leon holding all six counties in the Leon duchy plus an extra county somewhere else and my 2nd in line inherited the other county plus two random ones in my duchy, it ain't that simple.

Edit: Are you saying though that if I had created a duchy where that one random county belongs to he would have only gotten that duchy + the one county? That seems weird.
Last edited by Red Dragon; Oct 19, 2020 @ 10:39am
CrUsHeR Oct 19, 2020 @ 11:09am 
Originally posted by Red Dragon:
Originally posted by NorPhi:
@ Red Dragon
They get multiple counties because those counties are in the duchies they inherit. Don't own any counties outside your primary title and they only get their duchy titles (I think the game also gives them the closest to the duchy capital that's in their new realm but they may just revoke a title).
Nah Example: I just played as Leon holding all six counties in the Leon duchy plus an extra county somewhere else and my 2nd in line inherited the other county plus two random ones in my duchy, it ain't that simple.

Edit: Are you saying though that if I had created a duchy where that one random county belongs to he would have only gotten that duchy + the one county? That seems weird.

Yes. None of your additional sons will inherit any of your:

1) counties in your capital duchy
2) counties outside of your capital where the duchy title does not exist

>IF< you personally hold 1 duchy title for all of them at the time of succession.



Example with 3 sons, you only need to create / usurp 2 extra duchy titles. Succession secure.

You do not need to hold any of the counties under these titles, instead the duchy capital will be assigned to its respective heir, and the original owner becomes landless.

Partition does generally prohibit holding 2 duchy titles for yourself because of this system, since the second duchy would always be inherited by secondary heirs, no matter how many other duchies you create.
Thus you need to actually destroy unnecessary duchies, keep them available for future succession.



All of this only changes once there are Kingdom titles to inherit. In that case, Kingdom-rank titles will replace duchies in the distribution order.

Important to know: Same like Duchies, all titles in the hierarchy below each inherited Kingdom title are exclusive to its respective heir.

Thus it is not possible to e.g. have your 2nd son inherit the Kingdom of Scotland, the 3rd son Moray, and the 4th getting Lothian. Instead, your second would get Scotland with all the duchies below it.

Which means that if you cannot prevent Scotland from getting inherited due to Confederate Partition, you must give all the duchies away beforehand, otherwise the secondborn becomes super-powerful while your firstborn has to share your primary realm down to 1 county.

While under regular Partition, you would simply destroy the Kingdom of Scotland title, which will open all its duchies for succession once again.
Last edited by CrUsHeR; Oct 19, 2020 @ 2:48pm
NorPhi Oct 19, 2020 @ 11:12am 
Well, we know that the game bugs out sometimes, but it is supposed to work like this:

Confederate partition:
Your Guy dies. The game pretends you hold all titles that you could have created. It then continues as if this was normal partition. Any of those pretended title that wasn't handed out does not get created.

(Regular) Partition:
Succession is resolved by giving your primary heir the primary title, the capital and any higher de jure title it belongs to. Now all other titles of the same rank are are handed out to other heirs by age and number of titles they already hold. Whoever got an equal rank title is considered independent. If the game now continues handing out titles in turns until it either runs out of titles or of heirs.
Thus in an effort to distribute everything, it will also try to hand out the counties you hold. Unfortunately, this seems to bug out quite consistently, resulting in that behaviour you described, where a heir that already got something will still inherit counties, effectively removing those from your realm.

Granting them titles that they do not stand to inherit will apparently not affect their inheritance too much, so there usually is no reason to hand any heir of yours a title. You also may want to marry all your unimportant sons to old hags that come with nice alliances.

You can cheese this, by giving counties you would like to get back to very old hags or chaste/impotent/sterile old guys. They usually kick it a short time after (or unexpectedly die in war). And you as their liege will act as the heir of that noble lowborn war hero who went alone against a peasant revolt!
CrUsHeR Oct 19, 2020 @ 11:16am 
Originally posted by NorPhi:
Confederate partition:
Your Guy dies. The game pretends you hold all titles that you could have created. It then continues as if this was normal partition. Any of those pretended title that wasn't handed out does not get created.

That is a complete misunderstanding of Confederate Partition. The game will only creates titles which are of equal rank to your primary title, and only if you already could create them.

It will never create any lower ranking titles on its own. Thus you need to actively control the succession by creating or destroying Duchies as needed. And on later empire-level, the same goes for Kingdoms.



Ideally, the succession tab under "lost titles" should only show each son beyond the firstborn getting exactly 1 duchy or kingdom, then you did everything optimally.

As mentioned in my post above, the de jure hierarchy of titles is also exclusive to individual heirs. So you cannot expect that one heir becomes the vassal of another heir under any circumstances.

You also cannot "cheat" your way around this by granting them these titles in such a structure while you're still alive, then they still receive land they stand to inherit within your primary kingdom. So you're just screwing yourself by giving land to heirs manually.
Last edited by CrUsHeR; Oct 19, 2020 @ 11:20am
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Date Posted: Sep 3, 2020 @ 8:04pm
Posts: 15