Clan government

[VoiD]

Just noticed Muslins aren't feudal, they have their own clan government, is it limited to them or can you somehow play a christian or pagan with that government?

[VoiD]

So far I found no way to do this, even starting as a pagan african I got to the max tribal level and it only lets me adopt feudalism, a shame, it feels like the weakest government =/

[Mansen]

Pretty sure you have to start as a Clan, you can't reform into it naturally.

[The Former]

At some point you can in fact upgrade from Tribal to Clan. Maybe you need an innovation or something? All I know is the dev diary on governments said it was possible.

https://www.crusaderkings.com/news/dev-diary-17-governments-vassal-management-laws-and-raiding

As the game goes on, you can eventually reform out of Tribalism, becoming a Clan or Feudal realm instead.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by World's Coolest Old Guy:

At some point you can in fact upgrade from Tribal to Clan. Maybe you need an innovation or something? All I know is the dev diary on governments said it was possible.

https://www.crusaderkings.com/news/dev-diary-17-governments-vassal-management-laws-and-raiding

As the game goes on, you can eventually reform out of Tribalism, becoming a Clan or Feudal realm instead.

I could be wrong but I'd guess it really is a muslin-only thing, even pagans can't seem to get it through reform, but I'm a bit weary of trying to convert on my ironman game, going for the unify african religion achievement on this run.

[Mansen]

The ingame encyclopedia is entirely not clear on who can become a Clan. None of the pagan realms I've picked so far has a decision to become anything other than Feudal (Which I'd argue IS the better choice, since it's a lot less volatile)

[A mojet ne nado]

You can become a clan from a tribe if you are a Muslim.

[VoiD]

So here's what I found out, I reformed as the kushite faith and became feudal, I had some muslin vassals and managed to convert them, and they seem to still count as clans, even though they are kushite.

I wonder, if I became muslin, reformed and then went back to Kushite, could I have turned everything I had in a clan?

This change made be go bankrupt near instantly, from +25 gold from vassals I went to +3, and men at arms started costing money instead of prestige, so It's been 2 generations now, trying to extort subjects, sell titles, ransom criminals, etc trying to stabilize the economy, but honestly, feudal vassals are as good as having no vassals at all for the most part, some tribes were giving me 50~100% of their stuff, feudal is a flat out 10% plus a downgrade to every holding they had and if you try to increase it they will start hating you, it's rough.

Tbh I feel like changing everyone to scuttage and max out taxes while removing all levies (which are useless anyway) is the way to go, but it takes time, research, and lots of plots to assassinate you in every generation.

PS: If you have a realm priest and he has control of all church holdings always do try to keep him at +100 relations, he's going to give you more money and troops than the rest of your empire combined.

[A mojet ne nado]

Originally posted by VoiD:

So here's what I found out, I reformed as the kushite faith and became feudal, I had some muslin vassals and managed to convert them, and they seem to still count as clans, even though they are kushite.

I wonder, if I became muslin, reformed and then went back to Kushite, could I have turned everything I had in a clan?

This change made be go bankrupt near instantly, from +25 gold from vassals I went to +3, and men at arms started costing money instead of prestige, so It's been 2 generations now, trying to extort subjects, sell titles, ransom criminals, etc trying to stabilize the economy, but honestly, feudal vassals are as good as having no vassals at all for the most part, some tribes were giving me 50~100% of their stuff, feudal is a flat out 10% plus a downgrade to every holding they had and if you try to increase it they will start hating you, it's rough.

Tbh I feel like changing everyone to scuttage and max out taxes while removing all levies (which are useless anyway) is the way to go, but it takes time, research, and lots of plots to assassinate you in every generation.

PS: If you have a realm priest and he has control of all church holdings always do try to keep him at +100 relations, he's going to give you more money and troops than the rest of your empire combined.

As far as I know, you cannot change feudalism to a clan and vice versa. So if you want a clan, then you become a Muslim as a tribe, adopt a clan and change religion to the one you need.

[VoiD]

Originally posted by A mojet ne nado:

Originally posted by VoiD:

So here's what I found out, I reformed as the kushite faith and became feudal, I had some muslin vassals and managed to convert them, and they seem to still count as clans, even though they are kushite.

I wonder, if I became muslin, reformed and then went back to Kushite, could I have turned everything I had in a clan?

This change made be go bankrupt near instantly, from +25 gold from vassals I went to +3, and men at arms started costing money instead of prestige, so It's been 2 generations now, trying to extort subjects, sell titles, ransom criminals, etc trying to stabilize the economy, but honestly, feudal vassals are as good as having no vassals at all for the most part, some tribes were giving me 50~100% of their stuff, feudal is a flat out 10% plus a downgrade to every holding they had and if you try to increase it they will start hating you, it's rough.

Tbh I feel like changing everyone to scuttage and max out taxes while removing all levies (which are useless anyway) is the way to go, but it takes time, research, and lots of plots to assassinate you in every generation.

PS: If you have a realm priest and he has control of all church holdings always do try to keep him at +100 relations, he's going to give you more money and troops than the rest of your empire combined.

As far as I know, you cannot change feudalism to a clan and vice versa. So if you want a clan, then you become a Muslim as a tribe, adopt a clan and change religion to the one you need.

This is depressing, have anyone tried clans?
Feudal vassals are as good as having no vassals, for the most part, might as well make them all scuttages and max taxes, remove all levies (useless anyway) and even if you own something like the entire old borders of the Roman Empire you'll still be getting more money out of your own domain than all vassals combined, excluding the realm priest, the only vassal you should care about, really.

I was hoping clans were similar to the realm priest, because it makes no real difference, dejure or not, if we add more vassals to the empire as feudal.

[CrUsHeR]

Clan and Feudal are practically identical, in terms of infrastructure, technology, and succession.

The difference is that Clan has no feudal contracts, instead the taxes and levies are based on opinion.

Vassals expect an alliance with their liege, otherwise they get -10 opinion (-20 for powerful ones).

You also get the Conquest CB once per lifetime, so you can snatch a whole kingdom from targets not eliglible for Holy War CBs.

Originally posted by Mansen:

The ingame encyclopedia is entirely not clear on who can become a Clan. None of the pagan realms I've picked so far has a decision to become anything other than Feudal (Which I'd argue IS the better choice, since it's a lot less volatile)

The option to become feudal is replaced by "adopt clan ways" if your ruler is muslim.