Converting to feudalism Its practically losing.

[Drakenaut]

Totally crazy! I went form 45k to 4.5K while holding almost 3 empires, Its practically imposible to fight all rebels factions, and enemies at the same time. With the new fix, armys just seem even weaker and expensive.

The game became non playable, 3 generations have been trying to advance but seems imposible with rebels armys far more larger than 4k, little gold from vassals, not a worthy sucession laws beacause innovation just started for feudla advancement, that makes you divide what little you have, no economy beacause all buildings in holdings became deleted, and withj the new fix weak and expensive met at arms. non playable.

[Aldon]

I wouldn't have waited that long. You can quickly submit to a feudal herscher, become feudal yourself and then go your way. With three empires, you certainly have the opportunity to move the capital to a more advanced area and switch to this culture. Voila, better succession.

[Sol]

Ditto what Aldon said, adding you can always feudalize your old capital and move back to it, if you really want to. I do it all the time as Sjaelland - conquer some Feudal place in England or Brittany, jump capital. Heir can move it right back, and by that time it will be feudalized and hopefully have a few buildings in it.

[N7 Zulu]

Converting to feudalism should convert the tribal buildings to an acceptable feudal alternative. I'm not sure why they didn't keep that aspect from CK2. I was playing a game as the byzantine emperor and my nemesis was the nomadic empire in the north that is until they converted to feudalism. Their troop count, economy, I mean everything was dismal. They became easy pickings for my vassals.

[Someguyinhere]

Yeah. Waiting a long time to Feudalize is basically hard mode. It's not losing, as you put it, but you'll have to be ready to make smart decisions to resolidify your might as quickly as possible.

You can try to build tall rather than wide until you can Feudalize, or you can swear fealty to a feudal lord and become feudal that way. From there it's just a matter of regaining your independence or playing as a powerful and loyal vassal.

[Judas]

rushing to feudalism is practically losing

[Mansen]

NOT doing it is actually what loses you the game. Doing it when prepared and planned is the true goal.

[Someguyinhere]

Originally posted by pmumberson:

rushing to feudalism is practically losing

The only way to really "rush" to it is to swear fealty, in which case you'll likely be fine.

[Aldon]

You should prevent that. First, a tribe should not become so large that it forms an empire. This is administratively simply nonsense. The hurdle to becoming feudal must be lowered. I can't see what religion has to do with it, a nonsensical combination of two elements of the game. And thirdly, the transition must be better. No tribe plans its villages and starts from scratch simply because they change their social form.

[The Former]

Originally posted by Fula:

Converting to feudalism should convert the tribal buildings to an acceptable feudal alternative. I'm not sure why they didn't keep that aspect from CK2.

Doesn't make sense IMO. A longhouse shouldn't magically become barracks. The whole point of tribal infrastructure is that it's strong, but it's cheap and quick to build because the necessary infrastructure to operate it isn't on the level of a feudal equivalent.

As far as OP, changing your realm's entire way of life is a big decision and you need to make sure you plan accordingly. If you do, you'll find that in the long term, you'll be far stronger than you ever were as a tribal realm.

[CrUsHeR]

You wouldn't magically get new buildings, but you also wouldn't raze your entire infrastructure when you decide to reform your government to something more fitting to the current millenium. Because that is what happening, you start from scratch and lose around 90% of your troops in the process.

But no matter how slow or fast such a transition would have been - the game really should warn you that this is a very drastic, pivotal step in your campaign and needs to be well prepared.

What i don't get is, why don't you receive a free temple and city in your counties in exchange for the lost tribal holdings - This was what made the transition in CK2 an actual upgrade. So you must pile up a huge amount of gold, in order to found these cities and temples yourself immediately after becoming feudal. You're looking at around 1000 gold per held county, minimum. And you'll need money to hire mercs. Thus between 10k and 20k gold is a good start.

Also if the ruler you adopt feudalism with already has the Architect lifestyle tree, it makes the process much cheaper and more effective.

[JC]

There should still be some type of transition where you aren't absolutely screwed when you transition, or have to go out of your (culture's) way to earn up new "tech".
And agreed, having an organized religion should not be needed. The ancients (talking pre-BC) were feudal LONG before heirarchical religion was around.
Islam hardly ever has structured clergy and they weren't just beduins running around raiding others to survive.

[The Former]

Originally posted by JC:

There should still be some type of transition where you aren't absolutely screwed when you transition, or have to go out of your (culture's) way to earn up new "tech".
And agreed, having an organized religion should not be needed. The ancients (talking pre-BC) were feudal LONG before heirarchical religion was around.
Islam hardly ever has structured clergy and they weren't just beduins running around raiding others to survive.

Islam was founded around the time feudalism started. The other ancients you speak of never really had feudalism. The closest thing I'm aware of is the Spartan system of land grants, but that wasn't literally feudalism. Tribal peoples of Gaul and Britannia had "kings" and land owners, but in practice each man was "king" of his own realm and only banded together with their "peers" when outside threats manifested.

[GoldenTalon]

Originally posted by Fula:

Converting to feudalism should convert the tribal buildings to an acceptable feudal alternative. I'm not sure why they didn't keep that aspect from CK2. I was playing a game as the byzantine emperor and my nemesis was the nomadic empire in the north that is until they converted to feudalism. Their troop count, economy, I mean everything was dismal. They became easy pickings for my vassals.

Yes- this is list from CK2. Why was this not included?

Market lvl 2 - Town lvl 1 (Tax Income)
Market lvl 4 - Town lvl 2
Shipyard lvl 1 - Shipyard lvl 1 (Galleys)
Shipyard lvl 2 - Shipyard lvl 2
Shipyard lvl 3 - Shipyard lvl 3
Shipyard lvl 4 - Shipyard lvl 4
Training grounds lvl 2 - Keep lvl 1 (Levy and Garrison Size)
Training grounds lvl 4 - Keep lvl 2
War Camp lvl 2 - Barracks lvl 1 (L. Inf and Archers)
War Camp lvl 4 - Barracks lvl 2
Practice Range lvl 2 - Militia Barracks lvl 1 (H. Inf and Pikemen)
Practice Range lvl 4 - Militia Barracks lvl 2
Weaponsmith lvl 2 - Training Grounds lvl 1 (Morale and Reinforce rate)
Weaponsmith lvl 4 - Training Grounds lvl 2

Steppe Barracks lvl 2 - Steppe Barracks lvl 1 (H. Inf and L. Cav)
Steppe Barracks lvl 4 - Steppe Barracks lvl 2
Steppe Stable lvl 2 - Steppe Stable lvl 1 (L. Cav and H. Archers)
Steppe Stable lvl 4 - Steppe Stable lvl 2

[N7 Zulu]

Originally posted by World's Coolest Old Guy:

Originally posted by Fula:

Converting to feudalism should convert the tribal buildings to an acceptable feudal alternative. I'm not sure why they didn't keep that aspect from CK2.

Doesn't make sense IMO. A longhouse shouldn't magically become barracks. The whole point of tribal infrastructure is that it's strong, but it's cheap and quick to build because the necessary infrastructure to operate it isn't on the level of a feudal equivalent.

As far as OP, changing your realm's entire way of life is a big decision and you need to make sure you plan accordingly. If you do, you'll find that in the long term, you'll be far stronger than you ever were as a tribal realm.

Some historical aspects will have to be put aside for the sake of game play. As it stands the AI is screwing it self over in the mid to late game when it converts and it's making the game too easy considering how easy it gets for players mid to late game.

While the player can prepare before converting the AI won't be able to do that. Maybe they can create an exception for the AI or give an option in game rules for conversion of tribal to feudal buildings of the lowest tier.

[N7 Zulu]

Originally posted by GoldenTalon:

Originally posted by Fula:

Converting to feudalism should convert the tribal buildings to an acceptable feudal alternative. I'm not sure why they didn't keep that aspect from CK2. I was playing a game as the byzantine emperor and my nemesis was the nomadic empire in the north that is until they converted to feudalism. Their troop count, economy, I mean everything was dismal. They became easy pickings for my vassals.

Yes- this is list from CK2. Why was this not included?

Market lvl 2 - Town lvl 1 (Tax Income)
Market lvl 4 - Town lvl 2
Shipyard lvl 1 - Shipyard lvl 1 (Galleys)
Shipyard lvl 2 - Shipyard lvl 2
Shipyard lvl 3 - Shipyard lvl 3
Shipyard lvl 4 - Shipyard lvl 4
Training grounds lvl 2 - Keep lvl 1 (Levy and Garrison Size)
Training grounds lvl 4 - Keep lvl 2
War Camp lvl 2 - Barracks lvl 1 (L. Inf and Archers)
War Camp lvl 4 - Barracks lvl 2
Practice Range lvl 2 - Militia Barracks lvl 1 (H. Inf and Pikemen)
Practice Range lvl 4 - Militia Barracks lvl 2
Weaponsmith lvl 2 - Training Grounds lvl 1 (Morale and Reinforce rate)
Weaponsmith lvl 4 - Training Grounds lvl 2

Steppe Barracks lvl 2 - Steppe Barracks lvl 1 (H. Inf and L. Cav)
Steppe Barracks lvl 4 - Steppe Barracks lvl 2
Steppe Stable lvl 2 - Steppe Stable lvl 1 (L. Cav and H. Archers)
Steppe Stable lvl 4 - Steppe Stable lvl 2

I'm not sure. This would have fixed some of the issues with the AI when it converts. They could have added this option for players in game rules as well.