"Found a new Kingdom" decision

[Snowieken]

My campaign goal at the moment is to create a new "Lowlands" Empire consisting of a newly founded Kingdom of "Belgium" (consisting of some de jure duchies of West Francia and Lotharingia) and the existing kingdoms of Frisia and the remaining parts of Lotharingia.

I just want to make sure it can be done and I follow the steps in the right order to create the correct De Jure kingdom. First I was preparing myself to give away a Kingdom title first to claim it back later, but now I'm thinking it can actually be done in one go.

First question: can the "found a new kingdom" decision be done when you have a Kingdom title already? At the moment I have enough land to usurp the kingdom of Frisia and I have the right duchies to create my planned Belgium. What I am thinking right now is to create Frisia, so I can hand over the duchies I don't need for Belgium to other vassals without losing the land. But, and that's my second question, will the new Kingdom (Belgium) then be created with only the duchies I personally hold, or will it also include the duchies controlled by my vassals? I don't want to create the Kingdom of Belgium with too many de jure duchies attached to it.

If it's the latter, then I'm going to have to go with my first plan: give away the Kingdom title of Frisia (I already made sure I've strengthened my main duchy a lot) to claim it back after I created my custom Kingdom.

I hope I'm clear enough, I tend to ramble a lot :)

[piemeister]

You won't be able to create a kingdom if you already have one. Not sure about your second question.

[Mikey]

Found new kingdom only works if you don't already have a kingdom title. When clicked it will turn all holdings in your realm into the new kingdoms de jure territory under the imperial title where your capital is located.

[Snowieken]

Okay, then it looks like it's going to be plan A. Give away all duchies I don't want, create the Kingdom, and then reclaim/usurp Frisia and Lotharingia in order to create the Empire. The second question does not matter anymore, I can only have the duchies I want de jure part of Belgium anyway so I need to give away the others, and they won't be my vassals then.

It is definitely going to be harder this way, but I'm looking forward to the challenge :)

Also, thank you for the extra information about the imperial title of the new Kingdom as well, I wasn't sure of that either. It doesn't matter that much since I'm planning to create a new Empire anyway. Francia is already created, but quite weak at the moment, so I should be able to win the Independence war. It's probably better to move my capital to a Germania de jure duchy then, otherwise Francia probably gobbles me up again.

Thanks for the help!

[CrUsHeR]

1) Custom kingdoms and empires can only be created if you don't hold a title of the same rank

2) All your currently owned land will become de jure territory


Mostly because of point #2, i would only recommend doing this if you are absolutely desperate.
What this means is that

a) any exclaves your vassals may hold will forever be part of this empire (looking at you, single county in northeast mongolia)

b) any lands you probably should be getting are NOT de jure territory. Meaning that future annexations will suffer from the "not de jure liege" modifiers, which are pretty strong. You are going to miss out on something like 40% of the taxes and levies from vassals, maybe more.
And you will never have de jure claims on anything outside of your current borders.

Generally the custom realms just increase and manifest the already existing "border gore", which is why i always turn them off, and also turn exclave settings and de jure requirement to max.

[gidro]

Also the costs/requirements for a custom empire are annoying :

1200 Gold
2000 Prestige
600 Piety

120 Realm size or at least 3 kingdom titles and 80 realm size
Level of Fame is at least Exalted Among Men

[Snowieken]

CrUsHeR: Shouldn't be if I do it as clean as possible with entire de jure duchies, without any roaming counties, which is part of my challenge. That's why I am so hung up on only creating the kingdom of Belgium with those three duchies I've mentioned, giving away anything else that doesn't belong to it.

In any case, it's going to be my end goal of this campaign, so I probably won't play further after that. Finding end goals is part of my fun in CK2 or CK3, more than just painting the map. The current plan is to change history and have Belgium as a Kingdom under a custom Empire, rather than being the bone everyone else was fighting over for 1500 years.

Originally posted by gidro:

at least 3 kingdom titles and 80 realm size

Argh, forgot about the realm size requirement of the empire. My planned kingdoms are definitely not going to be enough. Oh well, either gonna put my empire plans on hold, or see which other Kingdom I can gobble up in it. East Francia might be a candidate.

[Snowieken]

Originally posted by CrUsHeR:

b) any lands you probably should be getting are NOT de jure territory. Meaning that future annexations will suffer from the "not de jure liege" modifiers, which are pretty strong. You are going to miss out on something like 40% of the taxes and levies from vassals, maybe more.
And you will never have de jure claims on anything outside of your current borders.

Okay, follow-up question, just to be sure: if I create a custom kingdom with only duchies, and make sure I hold the entire duchies and not a county more or less, those duchies become De Jure part of the new Kingdom, so I shouldn't have any "not de jure liege" modifiers anymore, right? Since the counties are still part of the duchies, only the duchies are now de jure part of my new kingdom.

And not having de jure claims on anything outside of your borders, that implies to every kingdom title you fully control unless you rank up to emperor, right?