AI Major Logistics?

[CaBhaal]

I understand Minor Empires not having to worry about logistics. But do AI Major Empires have to worry about it? I've read that they get to build roads for free, regardless of terrain. I was wondering if they cheat on logistics as well.

I'm on my first campaign, finally in a war against a Major after 90 turns. I cut off the roads that lead directly to their front lines, leaving a single meandering dirt road to supply a very large front line. I thought this would affect enemy supply, leading to attrition and making my assaults easier.

Unfortunately, the enemy has done the opposite. They have reinforced heavily, bringing in dozens of tanks and numerous infantry units. I've put spies in their zone and can see the city supplying logistics has a single level 1 Transport Hub connected to the front by the aforementioned dirt road (some 20+ hexes), without any supply depots. The enemy units show no signs of suffering from low supply.

Unfortunately, this killed the game for me. I was enjoying it quite a bit until now. Attacks on logistics is an intrinsic part of warfare. For a game to model logistics in such detail, then allow the AI to ignore the model makes no sense.

[Thomas]

Yes, there was discussion about it in Matrix forum 2 months ago - as long as enemy unit has connection with SHQ - it will receive resources (minors without city dont have this need).

Vic said that he could think about free roads - but limitation about not using Logistic Point will have to stay. Personally I think that Majors should at least fake it more (with building truck stations and rail stations - even if they dont need it - so it would serve as resource sink).

[Edmon]

Yeah, at the moment if they have a route to their SHQ then they have full supply. If you cut off their SHQ then everything in their empire will immediately starve.

Problem is the logistics are too complex for the A.I. to handle and still be a challenge. Though I do think something should change, both for majors and minors, in terms of supply.

But I can't think of what that could/should be.

[Benlexlin]

Well, having AI fielding 3 times larger army with a more advanced weapon and a massive amount of armor while only have ONE dirt road is ridiculous. The player do have to set up FOBs and supply lines and micro manage everything, yet AI doesn't even build advanced road network. I'm having 1943 Eastern Front Flashbacks right now.

[CaBhaal]

Originally posted by Edmon:

Yeah, at the moment if they have a route to their SHQ then they have full supply. If you cut off their SHQ then everything in their empire will immediately starve.

Thank you for the reply. I suspected it would be something like that.

I think the biggest problem with the AI as it is now, is that a new player's knowledge of the game will be based on their own experiences playing it. That knowledge will wrongfully assume the AI is operating under the same restrictions as the player.

Here is example in addition to the one I gave in my initial post. My starting position had mountains (5-6 hexes worth) acting as a barrier between me and the Major Empire in question. There was one pass through, a narrow area 3 hexes wide of tundra. I'd already had experiences with IP costs building roads into mountain hexes, as my only metal mine was on one.

I remember being so excited seeing the pass through the mountains. Not at the pass itself, but at the game's logistic model *making* the pass important. That got me excited for the game, and the strategic possibilities it would provide. I was looking forward to hundreds of hours of playing a game where the terrain had more importance than just individual hexes.

I defended the pass, built up my forces and eventually the AI declared war on me. I won at the pass, only to be dismayed at the AI snaking roads toward my territory through the mountains. Areas I hadn't defended because I assumed the AI would be bound by the same limitations I had.

Originally posted by Edmon:

Problem is the logistics are too complex for the A.I. to handle and still be a challenge. Though I do think something should change, both for majors and minors, in terms of supply.

But I can't think of what that could/should be.

I know nothing about programming a good gaming AI. One possible solution might be an in-between solution to what you have now. Instead of modeling the supply flow to each unit individually, group them together on a macro level.

You could model an area's "logistics tail" back to the nearest city. It would be based on three characteristics: Length (Hexes), Flow (Road type), and Width (Transport Hub level). A supply depot on the road would decrease the Length.

(Width * Flow) / Length =Logistics Points

These three would form a generic pool of logistics points for an area, with each unit requiring a number of points for full supply. All the units in an area would draw from the pool. Once the pool is empty, AI units would experience a generic supply malus in combat based on how badly the pool is overdrawn.

On the AI side of things, the AI would now need to build good roads and upgrade Transport Hubs in cities to be able to supply large armies. But hopefully in terms of CPU cycle cost, it would be cheaper than modeling everything individually.