How should I approach this game? and a lot of other questions

[Towerbooks3192]

I want to try and squeeze a lot of things in one post and I would appreciate any answers people could give me with regards to anything.

Ok so I am no stranger to war games but I would also say that I also suck at them. I am most familiar with Vic's ATG gold since it feels like the natural progression once advance wars does not scratch the itch. I know how to basically do everything in terms of navigating that game.Despite having all the games in the DC campaigns series I never had much experience with them.

With regards to this game I feel that I am quite lost. I know how I should shell the hell out of a hex to ensure entrenchment is zero and then try to assault it on both sides. I am aware of the slow nature of a wargame and that is what actually made me like the old ATG.

So how exactly should I approach this game? I feel so lost when it comes to managing all the other aspects. Anyone who manages to get the ball rolling got any tips? I don't expect a full in depth tutorial but would welcome any tips on what to look at.

Unit production on this game seems really complicated. I don't even know how in the world I could raise additional troops. In ATG you usually just produce the troops then mix and match but here it is so complex.

Lastly, is anyone getting an error that crashes the game? I can't remember what it says but my current game encountered the error twice. I think it says failed to do something but you can continue but when you do it crashes. Also I had some rebels took over a city, I managed to capture the city but the rebels seem to be just chilling around on one square and I could not do anything to them. I might have to restart the game.

[Saracen26]

This game is so complex that it's difficult to really write a load of tips without writing an entire players strategy guide worthy of being published. So I'll offer a cut down version with just 4 points. It's the way I've learnt this game.

1) Read the manual. Yes, all of it. If necessary, get it on your phone and have the game playing. Reference between the 2 as you read so you're putting theory into practice.

2) DasTactic has an amazing Tips & Tricks series that he's still adding to. It's advisable that if you are having trouble in some areas you can watch a video on that area. He's meticulous and has helped me learn complex games in the past: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmPoXDAaR8FbM3xujwMsDgEv

3) Let's plays on YouTube. These are helpful to see people just using the systems. Watch them and see how things connect. This is great if you also want to see how to at least hit the ground running.

4) This goes hand in hand with point 1. But just play. As you discover, as you make mistakes, you will learn. Half the challenge is conquering the UI and finding where everything is. Once you are over that hill, it becomes so much easier.

[FireShark]

For the crashing, are you updated to the new official 1.2 patch? You could also try the new 1.2beta branch patch in the Matrix forums.

The big difference between this game and a traditional wargame like Decisive Campaigns or Gary Grigsby's War series is that in this game you don't just start with a bunch of troops and production capacity fight a big war and then call it a day.

In this game you need to build up to the war, manage all the leaders and big decisions, and then win the war, and then figure out how to stay in the lead, and who you are going to fight next.

This game is the marriage of traditional wargame and the 4x strategy genre. Do you have any familiarity with the 4x genre?

[Towerbooks3192]

Originally posted by FireShark:

For the crashing, are you updated to the new official 1.2 patch? You could also try the new 1.2beta branch patch in the Matrix forums.

The big difference between this game and a traditional wargame like Decisive Campaigns or Gary Grigsby's War series is that in this game you don't just start with a bunch of troops and production capacity fight a big war and then call it a day.

In this game you need to build up to the war, manage all the leaders and big decisions, and then win the war, and then figure out how to stay in the lead, and who you are going to fight next.

This game is the marriage of traditional wargame and the 4x strategy genre. Do you have any familiarity with the 4x genre?

I have played most 4x and grand strategy. (civ series, paradox ones) and also got the war games off matrix that I fancy. The thing with the game is I don't know if I should approach it like advanced tactics gold or as a regular 4x. The game does not feel like a regular 4x. I think it is due to buildings and units needing to be discovered. It also does not feel like Advanced tactics gold despite that familiar feeling. The game truly is something that has never been seen before and this is what really throws me off. Do I play tall like in some 4x, do I try to fight it slow like how you fight for every hex in each war game. Getting the ball properly rolling is one of my current concerns. I managed to play up to turn 50 now and of course I fail in the management side of things.Heck this game even has sectors and I only saw that kind of thing in age of wonders planetfall.

[Towerbooks3192]

Originally posted by Saracen26:

This game is so complex that it's difficult to really write a load of tips without writing an entire players strategy guide worthy of being published. So I'll offer a cut down version with just 4 points. It's the way I've learnt this game.

1) Read the manual. Yes, all of it. If necessary, get it on your phone and have the game playing. Reference between the 2 as you read so you're putting theory into practice.

2) DasTactic has an amazing Tips & Tricks series that he's still adding to. It's advisable that if you are having trouble in some areas you can watch a video on that area. He's meticulous and has helped me learn complex games in the past: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLGB6RkFB7ZmPoXDAaR8FbM3xujwMsDgEv

3) Let's plays on YouTube. These are helpful to see people just using the systems. Watch them and see how things connect. This is great if you also want to see how to at least hit the ground running.

4) This goes hand in hand with point 1. But just play. As you discover, as you make mistakes, you will learn. Half the challenge is conquering the UI and finding where everything is. Once you are over that hill, it becomes so much easier.

I will continue doing that. My main concern is the mindset in approaching this game. Advanced tactics gold as straigtforward and the decisive campaigns were pretty focused and with a bit of knowledge about WW2 you can kinda gauge what are the possible things that you can do. I did get the ball kinda rolling but man the supply management, economy and just about everything else is really going downhill fast.

[redwitch]

I think I know how you feel: This game is such a complex jewel I'm not sure how to touch it :-)

[willgamer47]

Be prepared to understand that the military part of the game is simple compared to managing the economy and the logistics.

As others have said, the level of information is mind boggling and digging it out of the UI will take plenty of time and practice.

All worth it if you like this kind of game...

[corisai]

I would dare ask a quick question here - no aircraft? Not found any mention of it in my quick run through manual.

[Saracen26]

Originally posted by Towerbooks3192:

I did get the ball kinda rolling but man the supply management, economy and just about everything else is really going downhill fast.

4.2.9 onwards of the manual is your friend in this case. Also make sure you are building enough roads and rail to facilitate your supply network. Replace dirt roads with sealed roads over time for better movement and logistics too. Supply and truck stations are essential when your territory gets exceptionally large.

Ensure you have the workers to meet these needs as well. You can build assets and supply bases to your heart's content, but they're useless without the workforce to deliver them.

Call your governer forward and ensure you're you've given them zone orders and that your credits and resources are being distributed to meet workers needs. You can also allow emergency food to help, but this is not an eternal fix.

Make sure your leaders are efficiently suitable for the job as well. In the long term, they can hinder your entire war effort.

Also learn to play with the Traffic signs order mode. These will redirect logistic points to where they are needed across your network.

Also don't just rush out and land grab. This is the difference between Shadow Empire and a game like Advanced Tactics. Whilst supply and logistics work in a similar way, getting too far ahead of yourself will cause you to over-extend and cause a greater drain on your economy. The expansion of everything in your growing empire should be met with balance. Take your time and expand gradually, pay attention to your points and build the assets to cover where you're quickly losing out. Use trading where you have excess to gain the resources you need more urgently.

It's hard, and there is a lot of plate spinning in the early game. But once you have that established foundation your economy will boom. Just ensure you don't get too trigger happy once it does.

[Saracen26]

Originally posted by corisai:

I would dare ask a quick question here - no aircraft? Not found any mention of it in my quick run through manual.

No, Victor left them out of the game for now. If the game does well he will consider adding them in and attempt to ensure they fit the balance of the game. At present though, the only aerial unit are jetpacks.

[Godwin]

I haven't read the manual. I did watch 11 of DasTactic's tutorials but most of those before the game was out when I couldn't play.

In any case, just have the manual open and be ready to ctrl+f through it. That helps.

Only look something up if it bothers you enough.
Stumble around.

Plan to totally screw up your empire the first 4 games but to learn something fundamental each time.

That would be my approach.

[FireShark]

Originally posted by Saracen26:

At present though, the only aerial unit are jetpacks.

I totally forgot about those guys. Can they move over water?

[Saracen26]

I wouldn't have a clue if they can or not. I mean I have them in my current game, but I have no water nearby to test if they do.

I heard somewhere on a YouTube video (possibly Tortuga's) that water currently exists as an impassible barrier unlike mountains which carry a heavy AP cost. So I'm inclined to sway towards a no. But I may be wrong.

[wsbenway]

I found it quite helpful to start my first game at a small lifeless moon. You get to have a couple of majors and maybe one - two minors. This way it was more easy for me to concentrate on the logistic and later battle aspects and understand the basics. Also you get to handle a relative small economy -due to small map- which makes it easier especially at beginner level where you have water and other resources ready near by.Also you will never need to set up a second HQ and avoid all the complexities it brings to the table.

For sure it is a 'boring' start compared to the Medusa class with the 4meter aggressive carnivore that Iurks on it that I experience now, but it really helped me to focus on some basic aspects of the game. As a side note ,regarding the economy, it really helps to use the trader every single turn. Knowledge of price fluctuation on the things you have surplus and intend to sell every few turns will help to make optimal use of the trader.

[Godwin]

Agree, small moon is a nice way to learn.

[wsbenway]

Sorry, this is irrelevant but I don't want to open new threads just for a question. I got this fate stratagem 'Gladiator' and I read: Effects when played extra level of arena. What exactly is arena and why do I want to upgrade it if I have to spend 2 fate which cannot be found easily throughout the game? Maybe it's a QoL building for the citizens. But again who would like to spend 2 Fate for a QoL building when you can easily enough upgrade your school to university or construct a hospital.

I understood the high importance of QoL buildings in my current start when I got invaded by a minor. I was not expecting to be attacked within the three first turns of the game and my troops (including militia) were trying to acquire easy territory. The minor got very close to my HQ (just three hexes away) and though he started to crumble (now utterly destroyed :) the danger factor was high and the happiness of the people went south of 50 (close to 42) causing public unrest. Building a hospital in the midst of this war really helped the situation. The people calm down and I could focus on the war with the minor. I may have lost a couple of turns military wise but in the long term it felt like a good move because of the QoL bonus. Also QoL buildings and features are crucial for upgrading our civilization which comes with many bonuses including some fate points.

So does anyone knows what is this Arena? If the stratagem says that I will get an extra level of arena does it mean that I have already an Arena? I certainly don't see an Arena in my assets so I am getting confused. Also if it costs like 2 Fate it might be something very useful.