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So GAIA decided to fix it by creating clone of Dr Sobeck hoping one day she can fix the problem since she had Dr Sobeck's DNA to enter certain location that requires DNA check and left her in the Nora Tribe as she shutdown herself (GAIA) to prevent Hades takeover even worse.
You'll find Hephaestus in The Frozen Wilds called as Daemon.
Dr Sobeck wanted to go home refer to the end when Aloy found her body, it's her farm located secretly in the map which you can try search on Youtube I've watched once someone found the location.
All the machines are not corrupted are Faro robots, the corrupted one is Hades robots. I don't think GAIA making robots but IDK.
Yep I'm also confused when Ted Faro killed all people in that room too, IDK why lol.
But at the end Sylens captured Hades, that Sylens is kinda jerk putting Aloy in trouble and dangerous situations while he just guiding or talking from safe places and when everything is fixed by Aloy he saved Hades for another trouble which I think we'll gonna see in Forbidden West maybe.
- One of the GAIA's first subordinate functions to fulfill its purpose was MINERVA, who created Faro machine deactivation codes. This was expected to take about 50 years (General Herres says this in 2065). The last humans died in early 2066 (estm) and MINERVA is expected to have shut down the codes in/by 2116. It took some time for GAIA to recreate the earth, and 2381 was the earliest estimated year that humans would be able to start populating the earth again based off of Sobeck's plan. We know from logs in the ELEUTHIA-9 Cradle that Aloy is born on April 4, 3021, so by the time the game starts when we see her at age ~6 (3027), it's been almost a millennia since the Faro Plague happened. (Dates are going off my own memory or from the Wiki.)
- I'm not sure I understand this question? The Faro machines were built with functions to "eat" biomass and the code and capabilities to do so "in emergencies." A glitch severed the chain of command, and allowed them to wander the globe eating anything and everything on their own power, basically, where before they would (in theory) only do so if/when instructed. When there's nothing left to eat, they go into hibernation until they detect more sustenance around to consume to keep them going (which happened in estm. 2068 with the final extinction of marine life). MINERVA took 50 years to create the codes to shut these machines down, which is different from hibernating, so even if biomass grows on Earth again, they won't wake up (like the enormous Metal Devil=Horus Titan that lives over the Nora's sacred mountain hasn't moved in centuries). But in the end of the game, HADES intends to use MINERVA's communication towers to basically reverse MINERVA's process, and recreate code to wake the Faro machines back up again.
- Pretty sure Aloy means Elisabet intended to go home to her ranch, hence the final scene of her finding her body. Although the Sobeck Ranch is located in Carson City, Nevada, which is west of the locations in the game, so technically speaking, her home is in the Forbidden West. But I doubt this line was meant as a hook for the sequel, if that's what you meant, because Guerrilla probably didn't get a green light to make Forbidden West until after they saw how the first game was received. It's always possible though that they might say Aloy visits the ranch as a stop while she makes her journey further west in the sequel.
- GAIA has only remade the planet once. HADES was meant to trigger, if at all, BEFORE the new humans (or animals) were born, like if it realized POSEIDON, AETHER, or even DEMETER were making mistakes. ELEUTHIA only has so many human zygotes in storage, and after they were birthed, that's kind of it; no do-overs from that point on. After humanity was reborn, there probably should've been a way for GAIA to deactivate HADES to make sure it never awoke to destroy her work, but I guess hindsight is 20/20. So we can assume that all went well the first time around from GAIA's apparent success, but that means the HADES function has never fulfilled its purpose. When it wakes up in 3020, it gains autonomy, and all the AI wants to do is achieve the function it was built for, so it sets out to 1) put GAIA out of commission, who is its biggest obstacle to its goal, and 2) destroy life as it was intended in the quickest way it sees with the resources available: reactivate the MINERVA towers to transmit new codes that will reawaken the Faro Plague.
- Yes. There are two types of machines: Faro's machines with the plague (Scarabs/Corruptors, Khopesh/Deathbringers, and Horuses/Metal Devils), and all the other machines are GAIA's—or technically, HEPHASESTUS's, because GAIA went offline ~20 years ago, so every new machine in the "Combat" class (ranging from Sawtooths to Thunderjaws) since has been made by HEPHAESTUS of its own new will.
- Yes, that is where the tribes originated from. It's implied that the Nora is the first tribe in this area of the world, and the others nearby sprang from it (or at least the Carja did), but we don't know enough about where other ELEUTHIA facilities are located to say for certain. The recordings we see in the ELEUTHIA Cradle were the first generation of new humans and there was nothing/no one else alive to take care of them, which is one reason why they were so under-prepared when they were kicked out of the Cradle (APOLLO's deletion was another big hindrance to their development). I don't think we know specifically when the first humans were birthed, but it's estimated the planet wouldn't have been ready for them until 2381, so that was the earliest possible date. Aloy was born in 3020, and there are several hundred years of Carja history recorded around the map, so she came much later, after people in this area of the world forgot their connection to the Cradles.
- I'm not sure what you mean by Aloy recalling memories about her childhood. What scene is this? If you're talking about Elisabet's story of how she burned down a tree and accidentally killed a family of birds, that was an old recording that Aloy found in GAIA Prime, presumably as Elisabet was teaching GAIA where her compassion for life came from, and Aloy was listening to it as she traveled to the Sobeck Ranch.
- Ted Faro is implied to have gone made with guilt over his role in the world's destruction, leading him to kill the Alphas and purge APOLLO as a way to justify his actions to himself that he was "saving" humanity to make up for his culpability. But it's a popular theory with fans that he really just didn't want future generations knowing what he did: He purged APOLLO so they wouldn't learn of his/his company's mistakes, and then immediately killed the Alphas, who would presumably have tried to fix it, so that no one knew about it.
I might add that HADES didn't wake up by himself. IIRC the reason for HADES becoming autonomous was an external signal. (possible sent by Vast Silver???)
"Freed" from his normal status as a part of GAIA he is kinda a rogue - more dangerous version of the original HADES (imho hinted through his dialog and a lot of datapoints).
While i find this fan theory very plausible, the process of Ted going irrational/mad is hinted several times. I remember a datapoint where Elizabeth talks about Ted avoiding eye contact, muttering to himself and showing neurotic behaviour. Also his Dialog with Elizabeth and GAIA is a bit "weird".
Btw. to be fair with Aloy's attitude - there are almost exclusively men screwing things up. :P
I will say I completely missed that it was elisabet's recollection of her killing the birds, I think I made the mistake because it's the same voice actor. Somehow my brain interpreted that Aloy was moving her mouth and thus recollecting to Gaia.
To clarify my question about faro's machines some more, I guess one of my problems with the idea is that remember the idea behind Gaia was to encode information on DNA because it had the most fidelity. If that were true, why would Faro's technology survive? It wasn't encoded on DNA.
I still don't buy Faro going mad. If Elizabeth noted him going mad, she would have been smart enough to out maneuver him given how jesus-like they wrote her to be. I've seen this kind of bad writing a lot recently in big ticket franchises, like how Luke got old and bitter and thought about killing Kylo when it's completely out of character given that he was borderline suicidal in favor of redeeming his father in his formative years, and Joel being overly trustful of strangers in Last of Us 2 when it was demonstrated in part 1 that he's not fooled like that. Just because there's some small hint that they were going mad over time isn't good writing.
Dude, seriously? First, through pure idiocy, greed and pride he causes the literal extinction of the world. (had all his "peacekeepers" run black quartz security) Second, when hes told this, he literally asks how to fix it before people find out. (the doc calls him out on this) Which he probably knew because data logs show dozens of lawsuits and instances where the swarm was murdering everything plant and animal. with no signs of slowing down. Its the only reason he called sobek at all.
Then the second sobek is dead, you can find multiple data logs about ted acting oddly and showing unstable behavior. The guy had just killed everyone on the planet, and the planet itself. The same planet he fought for years to save. (albeit for the clout and fame)
That kind of guilt would drive most people mad. But hes still selfish enough that he probably didnt want future generations to know what hed done. Theres also a data log that says hes in his pyramid, with hologram egyptian dancing girls waiting the end out. Hes a narcissist with a major god complex, on a GOOD day. You dont buy he went cookoo? Wut?
It feels contrived that he goes back on his word and intentions to fix things. It feels like the plot needed him to go crazy in order for there to be a plot, in other words the plot forced him to be a Judas to Sobek's female jesus. The problem to me with this sort of plot force is, if he can go crazy, then why not Sobek or anyone else? Why didn't Sobek go crazy with the weight of everything she had to do?
I think you're trying too hard to hate Faro. Yes he basically caused the mass extinction of life on earth, but he did not do so intentionally and once he realized what was going on, he did everything in a forthright manner to fix it.
I think what you mean is the encapsulated DNA that Samina Ebadji decided to store APOLLO's data onto? My understanding is that that was just Zero Dawn's method of, well, storing all the zettabytes of data about humanity. The actual program to understand, translate, distribute, teach, and evolve with it—APOLLO—existed somewhere else, and that was what Ted purged. Likewise, the Faro robots or their programming aren't data storage, so they don't need to be "encapsulated" in that way: They don't learn, grow, or pull from a database of knowledge that needs to be physically stored somewhere; they just consume and destroy following their bulit-in programming. That's my understanding at least, but I admit I understand very little about engineering or the science behind this game in general, so maybe someone else can help you out here.
Sorry I ramble here a little bit but:
I will say that Elisabet isn't a machine, so it's not like she was programmed to always be smart and smart was only ever what she is going to be in every situation ever; she was human and she made mistakes. She was intelligent in machine design and had a lot of emotional empathy, but that doesn't mean she was necessarily good at reading or politically outmaneuvering people, especially if they were separated by distance, as she and Ted were during Zero Dawn. Several things here can be contributed to stress and guilt; either by her, or her reading of Ted's behavior.
It's not bad writing that she wasn't omnipotent; it's pretty reasonable that everyone working on Zero Dawn were a little too busy to think about anything other than the project. Maybe if Elisabet was operating at her peak, she would've noticed Ted was acting suspicious, but she was in charge of creating the most ambitious AI ever known to mankind, then teach it how to feel empathy for all living beings, spearhead a global initiative to bring back life itself, all while living through an apocalypse, so basically she was a little distracted lol. Everyone working on Zero Dawn spent the last year of their lives doing a hundred things at once while locked in cramped, sunless bunkers as the planet was eaten alive and people died outside in agony, believing they were going to be saved. In several datapoints, Elisabet talks about the stress and guilt of it all, and several ZD workers debate whether it's morally right for them to keep this charade up, to give people outside false hope. So they were a little too busy to make Ted a priority beyond making sure he could still fund the project, is my point lol. I think Charles Ronson, the ARTEMIS Alpha, said that Elisabet kept saying something like "We just have to keep [Ted] happy" (by giving him information to make him feel informed) because he was funding their work. But in practice she was probably like "Stick him in the corner so he doesn't ♥♥♥♥ anything else up" because she had way too much work to do to babysit him, so she probably wasn't paying much attention to him outside of that.
That said, the game does present Elisabet where she's painted in a shining light by several now-dead characters and Aloy herself. To her coworkers, she was saving the world and they didn't want to speak ill of the dead after she was gone; to Aloy, she was a representation of home, love, and acceptance for a very lonely girl who wanted to believe she had a mother out there. So we are getting a biased perspective on Elisabet from most sources. Sylens is the only one who appears to view Elisabet skeptically, as a person with foibles, but his reading of her imitates his naturally paranoid/cautious nature. Then you have Aloy, who tends to idolize Elisabet and uncharacteristically holds out hope for a while that she might have somehow cheated death. But I think the story does stress in the end that Elisabet was just a human being trying to do her best with what she had available at the time. She definitely wasn't perfect: Her Zero Dawn project basically involved kidnapping dozens of scientists around the globe and telling them they had to either 1) work on her project, 2) live in captivity for the rest of their natural lives, or 3) commit suicide. Morally, she's not entirely in the clear when we talk about messiah-like figures, lol.
I never played TLOU2 (but I heard the criticisms of Joel) and am not familiar with the Star Wars universe, so my biggest measurement of out-of-character behavior is like, the Game of Thrones final season. Personally I don't think Elisabet underestimating Ted is anywhere near Jaime Lannister or plot-hole levels of bad lol. At a certain point, I'm willing to suspend disbelief given who Elisabet is and what she had going on.
That said, there are theories that the Alphas had one or more backup plan, and in my opinion, Guerrilla laid some seeds that imply APOLLO might not be entirely gone, so maybe she and Samina did find a way to outdo Ted, and Aloy just hasn't found it yet. But I won't get into that because it's all theory and there's still a lot we don't know, lol.
My point about Faro isn't so much that Elizabet didn't do enough to stop him, that's a minor point of contention at best. My main point is that the plot required him to go crazy, and that felt contrived. If he can go crazy, why not Elizabet go crazy and screw up Gaia too?
Sure, he does that, but remember he only shows Elisabet what's going on when he had no other options. Before that meeting, he spent a fortune in lawyers and Customer Service complaints trying to mitigate the public damage of his endangered-dolphin-eating war machines, while his Chariot line was being used to invade and kill people in West Africa over lithium (and that's only off the top of my head). He had several lawsuits against Elisabet just for founding a competing company (seeing her company as a rival to FAS's environmental robotics division) and then had the audacity to ask for her help. He only dropped the lawsuits in time for their meeting as a peacemaking effort to get her attention.
He wanted a way to "contain" the damage of the Faro Plague, basically before the truth gets out. When he found out that there was no way to make that happen, the only thing left really was to fund efforts to combat it, because he recognized that's the direction the wind would soon be blowing. And remember, Elisabet knew Ted pretty well; she thought the only way to get him to fund it was to twist his arm. We don't know if he would have agreed to it if she didn't have leverage of revealing where the "real" glitch came from (implying he was probably also responsible for something else that went wrong with the Chariot line that we don't know about). He didn't agree to help Elisabet because he was fundamentally a good person, or trying to do the right thing; he was trying to do best by his image. That's not to say he never felt guilt, or shame, or sorrow over what he did. He's a human being, but when you have that much money and power, his priorities are not most people's priorities.
Faro thought that he was fixing things by deleting APOLLO. He was probably a very sick, lonely man at the end of his rope when he made that decision. That's probably where we're finding a disconnect in our readings of his actions there. He thought that all of humanity's technology and innovations didn't help us today, so how could it help future generations? After all, he was the richest man in the world who could afford to do or build anything he wanted, and all of that power just made life worse, so what good would it do for a bunch of people who don't know how to use it? In his twisted thinking, he wasn't going "back on his word," he was doing the right thing to spare future generations suffering. If you subscribe to the "he deleted it because he didn't want the future knowing about his role" theory, then that "I'm saving humanity" reasoning was probably also the way he justified deleting APOLLO to himself.
I don't think it's bad writing to have a narcissist act like a narcissist until the very end. Sometimes we want to believe every character will develop positively, making mistakes and learning from them, but sometimes people learn the wrong lesson—or sometimes realistic character development means they get worse from all the pressure and stress they're under, not better.
I don't know if you wanted a serious answer to this question, but I think the answer to that is that Faro was alone in his bunker. Elisabet, the Alphas, and Betas all had each other. They could listen to music and make jokes and check each other's work and get annoyed with each other and celebrate Halloween and they also had their families waiting for them when they were done. They also had an awful existence in their last year, but they had a goal to work for to keep them busy and waking up every morning, and just as important, they had human companionship, which matters a lot more than people realize. But meanwhile, Ted Faro was going mad with guilt alone in a bunker surrounded by his holograms. He went from the "Man Who Saved the Planet" to the man who ruined it/most hated man on earth in a matter of years. Also remember, no one wanted to talk to him and Elisabet kept brushing him off and tried to keep him in the dark about the project wherever she could. That's enough to make anyone go a little mad.
Yes he was a textbook narcissist capitalist etc, but that's not really the whole picture of him. He never intentionally sought out to destroy life on earth, and when it became clear that's what was happening, he acted forthrightly. You seem to dwell too much on this narcissist picture, but the measure of a person is not what happens to them but what they do in reaction to it, and by my estimation he did ok, even if not 100% willingly from the get-go it was still very reasonable and there was zero duplicity, until the plot required that he go mad.
I'd forgotten about that. So I think your question is, if the Swarm's physical databases weren't encapsulated like APOLLO's were, how did they survive to instruct the awoken Faro Robots when HADES reactivated them? I guess we don't know that they did survive; maybe the Faro databases storing enemy tactics have all rusted up by 3040. That said, if HADES reactivates a bunch of giant war machines, they probably have default programming to rely back on, which would include the Glitch that allowed them to eat whatever they wanted, because the Glitch was spread by a cluster of machines that self-replicated, and those machines had spread across the world by the time they powered down. The Chariot machines might not have access to all the strategies that humans were using to combat them in 2065-66, but they probably wouldn't need them to wipe out the planet in 3040 given humanity's current technological standing.
I think that was my understanding when I played, but I welcome any engineers to correct me lol.
"Not torturing," "not deceiving," and "not taking credit for someone else's work" aren't the best examples of explaining how he's ~not actually that bad~ lol. (Although the last one is actually debatable, because he was called the "Man Who Saved the World" but it was only off of Elisabet's green technology that ended up reversing climate change, so... in a way, he did take some credit for her pre-Plague work, and then, y'know, he sued her when she made a rival company under her own name.) I guess the bar is on the ground because not doing those things is like, the bare minimum to being an okay person. Not doing those things is not "honorable." It's just not being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.
I could also say it seems you're too attached to seeing him as a misunderstood anti-hero to let a very minor criticism of "bad writing" (your opinion) go. You can understand that he isn't necessarily a "good person" but... you're not convinced of him doing something objectively wrong not even with a sympathetic angle of mental instability—which the story hands to you, and makes him actually feel human. But you would believe it if he was ~secretly being controlled to make bad decisions by a mysterious shadowy force~ we have no reason to believe exists? I... don't know what to say to that. You seem committed to believe the best of a very flawed, but still morally corrupt, character in every situation. I mean, I'm sorry, but there isn't a Templar-like force labeled Evil making every bad thing happen in this universe. The sad, awful things that happen in this game all have human origins, but so do all the good things. That's the point of it. The story of Project Zero Dawn is a tragedy because the idea of it was so unrealistic and practically impossible, it should never have worked, but despite everything against it, it nearly succeeded in full. But it didn't because the team underestimated and didn't pay enough attention to a guy who they dismissed as not smart enough to understand their work.
Well there you have it, by your estimation he "did ok" so I guess no one else's opinion on his actions matters! lol I'm not sure why I'm bothering at this point, but yes, plot does have to happen, because... that's how a story happens. Plot happens because characters do things. Sometimes those things are bad. Characters react to their environment. Sometimes they react poorly. That causes conflict. That's called plot. Then you have a story. It wouldn't be very interesting or emotional if Aloy found out APOLLO was accidentally deleted because Samina Ebadji accidentally pulled the power plug while her computer was saving a file.
Like, sometimes characters just make bad decisions for understandable reasons. Sometimes those characters are capitalists and CEOs and human beings who ♥♥♥♥ up and make even worse mistakes when they try to right their wrongs. They don't need defending online by the same people who will sardonically call a positive depiction of a female heroic character "Jesus-like."
Although, hey, there are lots of people that think Faro cryogenically froze himself in his bunker and is still alive out there, so if they're right, maybe you'll get the chance to meet him in the sequel(s) and hear from yourself that someone put a gun to his head and forced him to delete APOLLO.
I've said all I think I can on this without repeating myself, so I'll dip out here. Have a good one.
I'm not a Faro defender or woobifyer either. I'm just saying the writing is bad because he acts out of character/irrationally. Just because Faro is a narcissist, doesn't mean he would sabotage the plan he signed off on. It's irrational. It's bad writing, because it's inconsistent with the character presented.
The only reason Faro went mad is because the plot required him to, it's not part of his nature or consistent with the actions he made thus far. Yes people can make mistakes, but usually there's a motivating reason that makes sense for why they did it to begin with.
A narcissist wouldn't care about what future generations thought about him, nor for their well-being, so that also contradicts this weird picture you have of him being a narcissist explaining his entire arc.
If Faro had a significant reason (other than being driven mad as the plot requires by solitude, which is bad writing) to off the alphas, then I'd buy it, but as there is no reason as of yet, they would have to introduce some hidden angle to explain his final action.
Are you saying Faro's final action was good writing - it was properly built up, believable, and drives the story in an interesting way that is consistent with the character that he is? If so, I'd like to hear your reasoning for why it is good writing instead of just trying to say that my opinion of it is wrong.
And please, there's no need to straw man my arguments. I didn't say sobeck was a female jesus because she was a positive female character. I have no issue with positive female role models, I have an issue with models who are overly glorified. You yoruself admitted earlier we have an overly positive bias of her, which seeing as you yourself said it I think we agree on. There's no issue with me calling her a female jesus, that is what it is and you even agree with it using different words.
I can think of a better way to write Faro's actions: by hinting that he had found out some kind of error with Appollo or Gaia, and he didn't have the time to explain himself so he took action. Just going mad with solitude though is just lazy/bad writing, because any motive could be explained by someone going mad in solitude. Maybe he started relations with animals that could be explained by going mad in solitude too. Or Sobek coulda gone crazy with the pressure and sabotaged Gaia, see what I'm saying?
Yes, his final actions WERE believable. Mostly because up until that moment, it was repeated several times that Elisabet was constantly keeping him in check. Faro was, in fact, holding on to her desperately to fix the problem he had caused. When she went outside the bunker to fix the leak, and consequently died, the last check in place to hold Faro to a reasonable behavior was removed, and Faro lost the last thread of hope he had. Thus he started acting suicidal and manic, and in his state it is easy to understand that he'd think that no one should attain the knowledge that led humanity to this situation. But if humanity were to revert back to pre-technology, when people weren't committing massive genocide, well, maybe that's a better state for humanity? (This being incorrect logic, though, because humanity did end up committing genocide anyways despite the lack of technology, as seen with the Red Raids.)
He already knew exactly what ZD entailed, and he signed onto it without reservation or duplicity. Elizabet had already by that point delivered in spades through the creation and operational success of many cradles and all the systems as per her specifications, in theory a narcissist wouldn't need her past that point since she'd outlived her usefulness. But the way you paint it is she was somehow giving him emotional restraint by being alive, which....no. I don't buy it.
No, in his state it is not "easy to understand" that Apollo should be deleted. Why would he believe that Apollo would lead humanity to this situation? If he really believed humanity would be doomed, why not just let the Faro plague run its course and nix the ZD project?
Can't have it both ways by signing onto ZD, then sabotaging it, it's bad writing.