OMORI
[Spoilers] How is this a story about empathy? Please explain.
Almost a week after watching the end of Omori, I've been trying to understand it, and my only conclusion is people who say it's one of their favorite games honestly kinda scare me. I don't understand how this is a story about empathy or what kind of f'd up **** you'd have to have done in your life to empathize with its characters.
Editat ultima dată de 🅷👁️👁️🆅🆈; 3 ian. 2022 la 15:25
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Se afișează 16-30 din 41 comentarii
kgptzac 3 ian. 2022 la 19:49 
Postat inițial de Brady Banana:
he meant to push her down the stairs, but he didn't mean to kill her. her dying from the fall was the accidental part of the incident. omori making her fall wasn't an accident.

I believe you are basing this interpretation from https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/PHOTO_ALBUM

Photo of an Argument - MARI was yelling at you. You couldn't understand what she was saying. She didn't understand you at all... She didn't understand that you just weren't good enough. The only thing you hold onto was your anger. This pain... was it her fault?

Photo of a Fight - MARI blocked your path. She says that she isn't finished talking. She tells you not to run away... but why not? You did this all for her! Why was she yelling at you? You didn't understand...

Photo of a Murder - You lose all sense and push her down the staircase.

Photo of Silence - You watched MARI crush on top of your broken violin. The sound wakes you up to nothing but silence. You called out to her, but she doesn't answer. Your heart sinks into your stomach.

Photo of Panic - It happened in an instant. You didn't mean to do that. Well, you did mean to push her, didn't you? It was an accident, right? You're not sure. You tremble your way down the staircase.

These are the textual description that is meant to accompany The Truth photo album, but cannot be viewed in-game and is only found in the game's files. Also, these description comes from an obviously unreliable narrator that is meant to be Sunny's self-loathing point of view. So I would have some reservation on regarding this interpretation on Sunny's intent as the official explanation. Of course I could be wrong here if Omocat herself stated elsewhere what her final thoughts and intention to be on this particular and important scene, so if such source is available I'm happy to be proven wrong.
Editat ultima dată de kgptzac; 3 ian. 2022 la 19:50
Postat inițial de kgptzac:
Postat inițial de Brady Banana:
he meant to push her down the stairs, but he didn't mean to kill her. her dying from the fall was the accidental part of the incident. omori making her fall wasn't an accident.

I believe you are basing this interpretation from https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/PHOTO_ALBUM

Photo of an Argument - MARI was yelling at you. You couldn't understand what she was saying. She didn't understand you at all... She didn't understand that you just weren't good enough. The only thing you hold onto was your anger. This pain... was it her fault?

Photo of a Fight - MARI blocked your path. She says that she isn't finished talking. She tells you not to run away... but why not? You did this all for her! Why was she yelling at you? You didn't understand...

Photo of a Murder - You lose all sense and push her down the staircase.

Photo of Silence - You watched MARI crush on top of your broken violin. The sound wakes you up to nothing but silence. You called out to her, but she doesn't answer. Your heart sinks into your stomach.

Photo of Panic - It happened in an instant. You didn't mean to do that. Well, you did mean to push her, didn't you? It was an accident, right? You're not sure. You tremble your way down the staircase.

These are the textual description that is meant to accompany The Truth photo album, but cannot be viewed in-game and is only found in the game's files. Also, these description comes from an obviously unreliable narrator that is meant to be Sunny's self-loathing point of view. So I would have some reservation on regarding this interpretation on Sunny's intent as the official explanation. Of course I could be wrong here if Omocat herself stated elsewhere what her final thoughts and intention to be on this particular and important scene, so if such source is available I'm happy to be proven wrong.
i didn't get that from the wiki, that's just my interpretation on it. i thought it was the most sensable explaination on why he pushed her, as well as what his intentions were. there are many other ways to interpret this though
Postat inițial de kgptzac:
Postat inițial de Brady Banana:
he meant to push her down the stairs, but he didn't mean to kill her. her dying from the fall was the accidental part of the incident. omori making her fall wasn't an accident.

I believe you are basing this interpretation from https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/PHOTO_ALBUM

Photo of an Argument - MARI was yelling at you. You couldn't understand what she was saying. She didn't understand you at all... She didn't understand that you just weren't good enough. The only thing you hold onto was your anger. This pain... was it her fault?

Photo of a Fight - MARI blocked your path. She says that she isn't finished talking. She tells you not to run away... but why not? You did this all for her! Why was she yelling at you? You didn't understand...

Photo of a Murder - You lose all sense and push her down the staircase.

Photo of Silence - You watched MARI crush on top of your broken violin. The sound wakes you up to nothing but silence. You called out to her, but she doesn't answer. Your heart sinks into your stomach.

Photo of Panic - It happened in an instant. You didn't mean to do that. Well, you did mean to push her, didn't you? It was an accident, right? You're not sure. You tremble your way down the staircase.

These are the textual description that is meant to accompany The Truth photo album, but cannot be viewed in-game and is only found in the game's files. Also, these description comes from an obviously unreliable narrator that is meant to be Sunny's self-loathing point of view. So I would have some reservation on regarding this interpretation on Sunny's intent as the official explanation. Of course I could be wrong here if Omocat herself stated elsewhere what her final thoughts and intention to be on this particular and important scene, so if such source is available I'm happy to be proven wrong.
You're definitely right that we don't know for certain if this is official, but one thing that I think is worth noting is that there are other instances in which the developers based finding certain secrets around the idea of players looking through the game's files. For instance, after finishing a neutral ending, a new file titled www__for_[player name here]__ (ex "www__for_SUNNY__" if you named the player Sunny) is generated in the game's main folder on your computer; this file shows an ASCII image of Something with the text "There's Something Behind You" spelled out in the middle, as if the game were making a meta statement that in the neutral endings, the spectre of Something and Sunny's trauma continue to hang over his head and the player's head. This definitely doesn't prove that those captions are official but lends credence to the idea that the developers expected players to look through the game's files and so they added secrets such as these that they intended to officially complement the game experience. We don't know for certain, though.
Editat ultima dată de Skub lite; 3 ian. 2022 la 20:09
this post is in response to blossom's statement under this thread's title. quote system feeling dumb today.

i'm going to quote the description from the game files written by omocat herself, then further describe them in a more understandable way since you have difficulty with reading comprehension. this isn't finished yet, so there may be some errors with phrasing, or mild misinterpretations here and there. also this is coming purely from my interpretation of the truth photos, so the additional details may not be 100% accurate to what happened.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_01.png
"You heard some scoffing from behind the wall, but paid it no notice. You were in no mood to focus. You were overcame. You were sick of everything. You know it wasn't a big deal, but you couldn't control yourself."

it's describing sunny hearing mari talking to him, probably mari pressuring him into playing it perfecting his violin. sunny's having difficulty paying attention because of burnout. he felt sick of playing the violin and angry at it. he tries to calm down by convinving himself that it wasn't something to make a big deal over, but his emotions overwhelmed him, causing him to throw the violin down the stairs.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_02.png
"Your precious violin lay shattered at the bottom of the staircase. You threw it in a rage. Your fingers were shaking in pain... practicing over and over... but you still make mistakes after mistakes. This was all a bad idea."

it's describing the aftermath of sunny throwing his violin down the stairs. his bottled up frustration boiled over and pushed him into throwing the violin down the stairs. his fingers are also aching from how much he was playing the violin during the session, causing him to keep making mistakes. he's also reflecting back to when he wanted to play with mari, realising it was a bad idea.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_03.png
"MARI was yelling at you. You couldn't understand what she was saying. She didn't understand you at all... She didn't understand that you just weren't good enough. The only thing you hold onto was your anger. This pain... was it her fault?"

it's describing mari giving sunny a lecture after he broke the violin. sunny didn't understand what she was saying because he was stuck in his own thoughts. he feels like mari didn't understand that sunny wasn't good enough to perfect the violin. this thought cycle led to his anger transition from the violin to mari. at the moment he's also wondering if the pain in his fingers was his fault, since mari was the one pressuring him into playing the violin.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_04.png
"MARI blocked your path. She says that she isn't finished talking. She tells you not to run away... but why not? You did this all for her! Why was she yelling at you? You didn't understand...

it's describing mari trying to lecture him while sunny is trying to walk ways. while sunny was on his way downstairs, mari stood in his way. mari was trying to make him stay upstairs so she could lecture him for throwing the violin down the stairs. sunny's questioning to himself why she was yelling at him, as he started playing the violin all for her. he didn't properly understand the situation at the moment.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_05.png
"You lose all sense and push her down the staircase."

it's describing sunny losing control of himself and pusing her down the stairs. not with the intent of killing her, just simply out of pure anger.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_06.png
"You watched MARI crush on top of your broken violin. The sound wakes you up to nothing but silence. You called out to her, but she doesn't answer. Your heart sinks into your stomach."

it's describing the aftermath of the incident. the sight of mari's body combined with the sound her falling onto the violin made sent him into a state of shock. sunny's trying to call out to her even though he knows she's dead. he wants to believe that there's a chance that she's alive. once he starts to understand what he did, he starts to feel a sense of regret.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_07.png
"It happened in an instant. You didn't mean to do that. Well, you did mean to push her, didn't you? It was an accident, right? You're not sure. You tremble your way down the staircase."

it's describing sunny trying to rationalise how much of the incident he is responsible for. he's trying to convince himself that it wasn't his fault, but he's also asking himself if it really was his fault. he thinks it was an accident, but he wasn't sure if it was an accident or not. he's also trembling a lot on his way downstairs out of regret.

https://omori.fandom.com/wiki/File:The_Truth_08.png
"You call her name, but she doesn't answer. You sweep the bits of wood from her body. Nothing but scratches. You turn her around and see her face. She looks asleep... but then, why isn't she answering?"

it's describing sunny in denial of her death. he's trying to call out her name hoping she wakes up, but she doesn't answer. he cleans up mari's body to see if she's injured at all, only to find nothing but scratches on her. he takes a look at her face, imagining that she's sleeping as an attempt at denial. he starts asking herself why she wasn't answering him, even though he knows she's dead. he just hoped she wasn't dead.[/spoiler]

i'm going to end it here for now since we're about halfway through the truth photos. i'll extend it tomorrow and finish describing every truth photo, since you seem so convinced that sunny's evil when in reality he just majorly screwed up. either way, i got to the main point so if you still don't understand it then there might not be any hope for you to understand the story.

i also want to explain why everyone's upset with you. you decided to spoil the entire game out of a childish tantrum all because you think the game is evil. wether you forgive sunny or not is up to you. obviously you don't forgive sunny, which itself isn't seen as a problem. it's why you don't forgive sunny as well as how blown out of proportion your opinion is. any opinion is acceptable as long as it's reasonable. your opinion is unreasonable, and i don't think you should interact with this fandom anymore.
Editat ultima dată de The Milk Man; 3 ian. 2022 la 20:49
Purrz 3 ian. 2022 la 20:47 
I think the way the game uses plot related hinting is just fine, and a majority of others think so too (based on the game's ratings). However, Im not gonna be mad at someone if they think the game needed more explaining. As the user above said, its just the childish behavior everyone else is upset at.

Also think about it this way, imagine if the game was too obvious and laid out every detail of the story and walked the user step by step through what happened. There would be many people complaining about how the game was dull and too predictable. There are many many games guilty of that on the market nowadays.
Postat inițial de Purrz:
I think the way the game uses plot related hinting is just fine, and a majority of others think so too (based on the game's ratings). However, Im not gonna be mad at someone if they think the game needed more explaining. As the user above said, its just the childish behavior everyone else is upset at.

Also think about it this way, imagine if the game was too obvious and laid out every detail of the story and walked the user step by step through what happened. There would be many people complaining about how the game was dull and too predictable. There are many many games guilty of that on the market nowadays.
i agree with this. i think this game would turn dull if everything was explained
kgptzac 3 ian. 2022 la 21:58 
I believe leaving certain things open-ended is cool. Like in the true ending after Sunny's confession, where the reactions from his friends are entirely left to the player's imagination; same goes to most of the bad endings. However, there are certain things that don't work well. The descriptions of the Truth photos: they were already written, but having them unavailable in-game strikes the question on what is the intention of their removal. Are the information no longer accurate and therefore no longer canon? Or are they still canon but only explained externally?

So far I've been believing that Sunny didn't push Mari towards the stairs, it's that her bad knee indirectly caused her fall down the stairs. But the Truth album photo description directly refutes this interpretation, and that could be problematic. Whichever way the event transpired does not change my feeling towards Sunny, but in the likes of OP, I think little details like this are more beneficial to be made more explicit.

I'm not here to chastise or to defend the OP, but I think Omori is a game better enjoyed offline the very first time, opposing to watching a stream with streamer's commentary. There are just way too many little things in this game that practically requires the player to pause and examine what's going on, and what's beneath the face value of each scene, sprite and sentence. Don't just look and see, and don't just listen and hear; the way is to truly enjoy this masterpiece is to interpret anything and everything the game shows you.
Erio 4 ian. 2022 la 0:29 
What the heck man if u don't like the game then just stay away from this forum. Tons of people have tried to explain their best and if that's how u still feel about the game then get out of here. If we cant change ur mind about the game, then neither can u change how we feel about the game.
i think we should let this thread die and ignore this guy. this guy is just going to make this community toxic if we continue to try to change his views
Editat ultima dată de The Milk Man; 5 ian. 2022 la 6:06
blossom 6 ian. 2022 la 14:32 
I'm making the community toxic if I'm questioning any aspect of this game's narrative and thus possibly making you question it as well? That's certainly an... odd... take. Even my favorite stories have flaws, not sure why you'd turn a blind eye to them. Doesn't mean you have to dwell on them, of course, if you appreciate all that is accomplished despite those flaws. But to shut out any criticism at all is a bit childish.
Postat inițial de blossom:
I'm making the community toxic if I'm questioning any aspect of this game's narrative and thus possibly making you question it as well? That's certainly an... odd... take. Even my favorite stories have flaws, not sure why you'd turn a blind eye to them. Doesn't mean you have to dwell on them, of course, if you appreciate all that is accomplished despite those flaws. But to shut out any criticism at all is a bit childish.
Brady Banana talked about it in another comment, but most peoples' issue with you isn't just that you're criticizing the game's narrative. From what I've seen it boils down to two additional main things:

1. You went into that other thread--a thread that was written by someone asking if they should get the game, which had already been answered several weeks ago, which people who didn't know anything about the game would be super likely to read through--and co-opted it, dropping the biggest possible spoilers for the game's plot in the process. When multiple people requested that you refrain from that because it would ruin the experience for people, you doubled down in defense of your actions

2. General conduct in some areas. Most of your responses in this thread aren't even a little problematic as they're just asking things, criticizing the game's plot, and explaining why you disliked things, but some earlier things you said were worded in a way that I find it really hard to imagine people would take kindly to. I really don't think people are going to view what you're doing as favorably when you say something like "my only conclusion is people who say it's one of their favorite games honestly kinda scare me. I don't understand how this is a story about empathy or what kind of f'd up **** you'd have to have done in your life to empathize with its characters." Is that not kind of insulting to all of the people here who like this game? Other stuff like that
Editat ultima dată de Skub lite; 7 ian. 2022 la 9:46
Postat inițial de blossom:
I'm making the community toxic if I'm questioning any aspect of this game's narrative and thus possibly making you question it as well? That's certainly an... odd... take. Even my favorite stories have flaws, not sure why you'd turn a blind eye to them. Doesn't mean you have to dwell on them, of course, if you appreciate all that is accomplished despite those flaws. But to shut out any criticism at all is a bit childish.
Here is some elaboration on point 1 cuz I want to try and put you in our shoes. I want to recount the situation step by step so you can see where everyone is coming from on this.

Imagine a Steam game that you really like and which has been overwhelmingly well-received. I have no idea what the game is, but seriously actually picture it.

Now imagine that there's a Steam discussion post by a person who hasn't played the game specifically asking about whether they ought to get the game. In other words, this is a topic that is, much more than any other type of discussion post, most likely to be viewed by people who are debating whether to get the game.

Imagine some person comes along and says the game that you like is "horrible" and "has no moral or theme. It's an evil story." or something like that. Imagine that they say these things in a very similar wording to this, if not verbatim. Imo the wording of that is already a bit hostile, but let's give them the benefit of the doubt, as everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if the way they express it might not be to one's liking.

Then this person goes on to--in this thread that is more likely than almost any other discussion topic to be viewed by people who've yet to finish or maybe even play the game--drop massive spoilers for the entire plot of this game that you like, not just once, but in like 10 or so different comments all within that thread.

Then other people call this person out multiple times and say that they shouldn't be spoiling the entire plot of the game for these people who haven't played the game, and this person doubles down, reiterating that the story is evil and horrible and has no moral and no theme and they had to warn people.

Whatever game of yours that you like that this is, remember that it's a game that's overwhelmingly well-liked. You really like it, others in the forum really like it; most other people really like it. This person comes in who takes their personal opinion that's in the minority and decides to do something that has a high risk of ruining other peoples' experience with the game.

I would not call that a good way to approach things. Surely there are many, many better ways to approach things than that
Editat ultima dată de Skub lite; 6 ian. 2022 la 17:19
Postat inițial de blossom:
I'm making the community toxic if I'm questioning any aspect of this game's narrative and thus possibly making you question it as well? That's certainly an... odd... take. Even my favorite stories have flaws, not sure why you'd turn a blind eye to them. Doesn't mean you have to dwell on them, of course, if you appreciate all that is accomplished despite those flaws. But to shut out any criticism at all is a bit childish.
Here's sort of the same "put you in our shoes" stuff for point 2

Imagine you like a game and you're discussing it with people. Someone posts a comment where one of the main/only things being said is "this game's story is just absolutely horrendous. It has no moral or theme. It's a truly evil story."

Would you feel like the way they worded that was conducive to productive conversation? I personally would not. Surely there are better ways to express that same idea that people who hold vastly differing opinions would be more receptive to
Postat inițial de blossom:
I'm making the community toxic if I'm questioning any aspect of this game's narrative and thus possibly making you question it as well? That's certainly an... odd... take. Even my favorite stories have flaws, not sure why you'd turn a blind eye to them. Doesn't mean you have to dwell on them, of course, if you appreciate all that is accomplished despite those flaws. But to shut out any criticism at all is a bit childish.
the problem is your opinion is inaccurate to how the game is actually trying to portray sunny. you believe sunny feels no remorse for killing mari when in reality there's plenty of evidence sunny feels remorse for killing her. why do you think something exists in the first place?

it's not having an opinion on an aspect of the game that's the problem. the fandom is very big on letting people have reasonable theories about any aspect of the game. the problem is how flawed your belief that sunny is evil is. it contradicts the entire plot of the game.

i'm going to give an example of a common theory that i personally don't believe in, but one that i believe is a reasonable theory, just to prove that it's not just that i don't believe in your theory, but rather how unreasonable it is that's the problem. spoilers for hero's reaction to kel trying to comfort him in the next paragraph. there will also be spoilers for the incident that led up to the plot of omori.

many people believe that hero's reaction to sunny telling his friends about how mari died would be him getting angry at sunny and not forgiving him. i can see him not forgiving sunny, but i don't see him getting angry at him. i think hero would try to forgive sunny, but fail to do so. i'm going to give one example of evidence for this theory, since it's not the main point. it's just a supporting point.

the reason why people think hero would get mad at sunny is because there's a scene at the graveyard behind the church where kel tells sunny about a time where kel tried to comfort hero. long story short hero got mad at kel and lost his temper. so that's proof to the idea that hero would get mad at sunny. as a result, even though i don't believe hero would get mad at him because of his overall mentality, i see why people would think that.


your theory on the other hand is sunny feels no remorse for killing mari. you also think sunny is evil. i'm just going to explain what it contradicts, because it contradicts a lot. it contradicts the existence of whitespace, blackspace, headspace, something, omori, hellmari, ghost mari, stranger, and sunny's motive for developing severe depression.

they all originated as either a representation of sunny's trauma (blackspace) or as a form of escapism from his trauma (whitespace). some of what i listed above originates from sunny's desire to remember the incident (stranger) as it's implied that sunny starts to forget it in the post incident timeline (the timeline we play in). we see this happen in the hikikomori route.

and that's only mentioning how flawed your theory is. i can list plenty of reasons why the community has a problem with you. you purposefully spoiled the game in another thread because you were upset that you didn't understand the plot behind the game. you're also aggressively assertive with your theory and get mad whenever people try to correct you. remember you ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up your reputation. don't be surprised if people are a bit condescending to you.

you also projected your flawed theory onto the entire fandom. you believe that the entire fandom is evil. if you've been in the fandom for only a day you'll notice that this fandom is mostly chaotically wholesome with some dark humour added to it. if you don't believe me, just look up some omori memes and see for yourself.

to summarise this comment, people don't hate you for having an opinion. people hate you because of your childish behaviour and how flawed your opinion is. i really think we should let this thread die now. even if his theory is flawed and that he is an ass, i still feel like this thread will lead us into developing a gatekeeper mindset.

update on the truth photo essay post: i got a cold so i lost some motivation, but i feel more motivated now. if i remember to do it, i'll try to finish it tomorrow
Editat ultima dată de The Milk Man; 6 ian. 2022 la 18:07
Alexios 6 ian. 2022 la 20:41 
Well I just beat the game and I also don't think that a major theme is about empathy at all. Anyway, the characters aren't bad people though and we get to see Sunny's ineffective coping mechanisms trying to deal with his grief.
Editat ultima dată de Alexios; 6 ian. 2022 la 20:41
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