[Spoilers] How is this a story about empathy? Please explain.

[blossom]

Almost a week after watching the end of Omori, I've been trying to understand it, and my only conclusion is people who say it's one of their favorite games honestly kinda scare me. I don't understand how this is a story about empathy or what kind of f'd up **** you'd have to have done in your life to empathize with its characters.

[RattyRattington]

Originally posted by blossom:

I don't understand how this is a story about empathy or what kind of f'd up **** you'd have to have done in your life to empathize with its characters.

I don't think you need the same experiences in life to feel for fictional characters.

[kgptzac]

Omori's story helps improve one's EQ, but I suppose one needs a minimum amount of EQ to get started in this process.

[Purrz]

Don't you have a life? This is like the 4th time you're trying to bait people into responding because you don't understand the story when many times people have tried to explain to you and you refuse to understand so there's not much people can do for you.

Just because you didnt like the game doesnt mean you have to ruin the experience for everyone else.

Again, you purposely posted spoilers because you feel entitled to because you don't understand the story, like a spoiled child. Please stop. This is just sad. This is like the equivalent of me walking into a movie theater and yelling the spoilers for a movie I didn't like.

[The Milk Man]

you dont need to go through ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up ♥♥♥♥ in your life to feel bad about a character. the main message of this entire game is forgiving yourself. sunny didn't mean to kill mari. he did mean to push her, but in the moment he didnt think it would kill her. also he was angry and stressed and all that. why the hell else would he have been majorly depressed since then? not to mention the existence of something, headspace, and omori as a character being created directly from the mental trauma sunny felt for all those years. people enjoyed this game for its story as well as its contrast between happy and sad, not to mention how well written the characters are.

i think you should just leave this fandom. you're ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ it up with this childish perspective that because you didn't enjoy the story, that omori as a game is evil, and that everyone who's a fan of the story is evil. the reality is evil people are more likely to play the game and think "eh, whatever. this story has no meaning". not that everyone who thinks like that is evil, but an evil person would 100% think that. on the other hand, someone who's more sympathetic or empathetic would be a lot more likely to feel bad for sunny. overall you got your opinion backwards. its the other way around

[blossom]

Originally posted by DeadlyCreature:

Originally posted by blossom:

I don't understand how this is a story about empathy or what kind of f'd up **** you'd have to have done in your life to empathize with its characters.

I don't think you need the same experiences in life to feel for fictional characters.

I agree, but pushing your sister downstairs then staging it as a suicide is not an empathetic action. It's simply insane.

I understand the general idea of forgiving yourself, but why should this particular character be forgiven?

[kgptzac]

The game should have elaborated in what really happened with Mari and the stairs, and it shouldn't be left to interpretation because players may reach the wrong conclusion. Sunny did not intend to push Mari downstairs. He shoved her but Mari's bad knee crumbled and caused her to fall down. This is the intended conclusion the game wants the players to reach on their own, but it has hidden key parts of it too deep.

Even as a player you can't forgive Sunny and Basil for what they've done, Kel, Hero, and Aubrey (at least the kid version) are embodiment of pure kindness and warmth. There is no need to disparage others for liking these characters.

[kgptzac]

I would go one step further to say whether you as the player forgive Sunny and Basil for their actions is only secondary to the message of this story: those who are around us, close to us and depend on us, who are mentally, emotionally, and socially unstable, should have our understanding, acceptance, guidance, and kindness.

[blossom]

OK, I've realized why this game's shock twist ending pisses me off so much. If it were purely an accident, which multiple people have told me is the case yet as kgptzac points out, the game does a bad job at explaining this -- but let's assume it's indeed an accident and I'd be fine with it. I'd actually feel bad for Sunny at that point, because it's not like he'd have meant to kill her. Although, you'd still have to be kinda dumb to push someone near stairs. Yes, even if you're 12 years old. But the fact he and Basil went a step further and staged it as a suicide makes me mad and not able to forgive either of them.

However, thinking about it a little more instead of having tunnel vision on why I'm mad at them, I feel like the bigger issue is this feels like a plot hole. Surely forensic science is good enough to know, like wouldn't someone have investigated Mari's death and found that her body does not line up with that of a hanging? That she was pushed downstairs? And I'm not sure what punishment is actually appropriate for Sunny and Basil, but the fact is it feels like someone SHOULD have found out.

[Xorik]

Sounds like you missed another key detail.

Why do you think Sunny's dad isn't around and is symbolized in Black Space in the final hole spawned from picking up the final necessary key?

[Purrz]

Originally posted by blossom:

OK, I've realized why this game's shock twist ending pisses me off so much. If it were purely an accident, which multiple people have told me is the case yet as kgptzac points out, the game does a bad job at explaining this -- but let's assume it's indeed an accident and I'd be fine with it. I'd actually feel bad for Sunny at that point, because it's not like he'd have meant to kill her. Although, you'd still have to be kinda dumb to push someone near stairs. Yes, even if you're 12 years old. But the fact he and Basil went a step further and staged it as a suicide makes me mad and not able to forgive either of them.

However, thinking about it a little more instead of having tunnel vision on why I'm mad at them, I feel like the bigger issue is this feels like a plot hole. Surely forensic science is good enough to know, like wouldn't someone have investigated Mari's death and found that her body does not line up with that of a hanging? That she was pushed downstairs? And I'm not sure what punishment is actually appropriate for Sunny and Basil, but the fact is it feels like someone SHOULD have found out.

Its not a plot hole though. his parents HELPED cover it up, specifically his mom. His dad left the family and disowned Sunny as soon as it happened. As seen in one of the holes that appear in the dream world, his dad can be seen in a flashback near the tree where Mari was hung. He says "Stay away, you are not my son" as he chops the tree down. It is heavily implied that his mom covered her son's actions because she didnt want to lose him as well. While sitting on the couch during the truth album scene, she says "my only daughter.. is gone.. and my only son.. I cant lose you too" It is also assumed this is why his mom never shows up at the house, her guilty concience is too much and wants to distance herself from her son but still cares and loves him. It would have been very easy for his parents to cover him if they agreed she was depressed/suicidal and no one would have looked into it further. Only a few pieces of dialogue exist that explain the situation, and if the streamer you watched didnt click or explore the game its easily missed

[blossom]

But "Stay away, you are not my son" happened in head space, right? There's not a solid reason to assume that means his parents helped cover it up. Unless there's more with his dad that I didn't see, but the way I understood it, head space isn't really an accurate representation of everything. It always felt like unreliable narration and up to interpretation, at least to an extent. You do make a good point about his mother, though. It makes more sense why she's not around. Although at the same time, kinda wonder why she's allowing him to move with her instead of saying something like "Just stay with your grandma/aunt/uncle/whoever, but don't be around me."

Another thing about the story as a whole is it doesn't feel like the kind of game where multiple endings are justified. Certain elements of this story really shouldn't have been as vague as they are.

[The Milk Man]

he meant to push her down the stairs, but he didn't mean to kill her. her dying from the fall was the accidental part of the incident. omori making her fall wasn't an accident.

[kgptzac]

The correct way to interpret Sunny's dad cutting down the tree where Mari was hang while saying what he said, is that he knew Sunny was responsible for the death of Mari. Voice messages from Sunny's mom also hints that she knew. Together the player is supposed to infer that Sunny's parents helped staging the suicide, then dad couldn't forgive Sunny for causing Mari's death and left his family.

The problem here is that these are mere hints when they should be made more explicit in the storytelling presentation.

It really didn't make a lot of sense without additional justification on how a body that was roll downstairs and then hanged on a tree could pass as a suicide in eyes of the police. If I were the writer I could make either parent a local police officer, or they are close friend to a police officer. Anyway I think this is probably the biggest plot hole of Omori's story, but it doesn't undermine its core message that I mentioned before. Sunny and Basil were 12 when Mari died, and they finally begins their rehabilitation at age 16. They have a lot to live for, and the game is showing us that we should encourage this rehabilitation, rather than seek retribution.

[Skub lite]

Originally posted by blossom:

OK, I've realized why this game's shock twist ending pisses me off so much. If it were purely an accident, which multiple people have told me is the case yet as kgptzac points out, the game does a bad job at explaining this -- but let's assume it's indeed an accident and I'd be fine with it.

Throughout the game, we're given access to Sunny's thoughts, actions and memories in the year leading up to the incident, and the history (Mari's piano playing, Sunny's violin, the recital, etc.) and feelings that led to him pushing his sister are stated outright, so we know that his actions stemmed from frustration that boiled over in the heat of the moment rather than some premeditated hatred. The game also makes it really clear in many different ways, both implicit and explicit, that Sunny loved and still loves his sister, and we're shown that this love is very characteristic of their relationship, even as recently as a few weeks before the incident, so the idea that he would intentionally try to kill his sister during an argument over a violin does not make any sense imo.

When the Truth is revealed, we're shown that, immediately after pushing Mari, Sunny is completely horrified and emotionally broken at what he's done, heavily implying that what happened was accidental and that he was distraught by the realization of the unintended consequence of his action. In the present, we see that Sunny still has intense remorse over what he did and misses his sister dearly, and that he hates himself and feels that it would be better for him to die for what he did to Mari on that day.

Imo, all of that incredibly strongly implies that he had no intention of killing her by pushing her and that it was an accident, to the point that I would say it's almost spelled out for the player. Even if there's an element of interpretation, I wouldn't say the game does a bad job of leading us to the conclusion that it was an accident, given all of the aforementioned. I don't think it's a coincidence that most people talking about the game have assumed it was accidental.

This is just replying to that first portion of your comment, I'll try to touch on the rest later

[Xorik]

Originally posted by blossom:

But "Stay away, you are not my son" happened in head space, right? There's not a solid reason to assume that means his parents helped cover it up. Unless there's more with his dad that I didn't see, but the way I understood it, head space isn't really an accurate representation of everything. It always felt like unreliable narration and up to interpretation, at least to an extent. You do make a good point about his mother, though. It makes more sense why she's not around. Although at the same time, kinda wonder why she's allowing him to move with her instead of saying something like "Just stay with your grandma/aunt/uncle/whoever, but don't be around me."

Yes, most of Headspace doesn't reflect the real world. However, very specific aspects of Black Space represent the real world, events that occurred, and Sunny's thoughts. They aren't all just random jumbled thoughts or feelings. Headspace and Black Space are separate places as told by Daddy Longlegs.

Sunny's Mom doesn't say that because she still loves Sunny. The memory associated and accessed in the Black Space portion of the game makes this obvious. She's not around because she's taking care of the transition of moving away. Being gone that many days means they will be far from Faraway Town. Or, it can be interpreted as an example of what happens in a hikikomori's life.