Flying

[Bickie]

OK, not flying but falling with style.

The idea is a wingsuit mod via the alteration bench for the chest or gauntlet armour slot.
Auto-deploys after falling 2 metres?

I can then unleash my inner lemming and glide over the landscape.

[Rekal]

I appreciate the appeal, but I think Icarus tries to stick to reality in most cases not involving exotics. I don't think it's a good fit for the setting.

Wingsuits have been hyped up in video games as fun ways to get around and I agree, they are fun. However physics (and thus reality) just doesn't work the way those games portray the wingsuit.

Most wingsuit flights end with a parachute landing. Anything less usually results in fatalities because a wing suit simply does not have a slow enough stall speed to be survivable. IE You slow your forward momentum down below 100+ MPH and you start plummeting like God intended straight down.

Here's the first safe landing with a wing suit and no parachutes. Notice the large amount of preparation required? https://youtu.be/dRB-woVjlFY?t=27 I wouldn't recommend it for jumping off of rocks on Icarus.

Now, a high-tech workshop powered armor with limited glide or flight / falling controls would seem more fitting. Possibly infused with those exotics to reduce gravity / mass interactions like some of the modules do? Not something you're going to craft by hand on your workbench though. I still don't think it's a good fit for the setting though. You're a prospector on Icarus trying to get rich not a thrill seeker willing to take large unnecessary risks.

Just my two bits.

[Dirmagnos]

Originally posted by Rekal:

I appreciate the appeal, but I think Icarus tries to stick to reality in most cases not involving exotics. I don't think it's a good fit for the setting.

What is unrealistic about it? Glide suits are a thing.
And considering that there are mountains everywhere, gliders make perfect sense.

Wingsuits have been hyped up in video games as fun ways to get around and I agree, they are fun. However physics (and thus reality) just doesn't work the way those games portray the wingsuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qbJSvfv-c

Most wingsuit flights end with a parachute landing. Anything less usually results in fatalities because a wing suit simply does not have a slow enough stall speed to be survivable. IE You slow your forward momentum down below 100+ MPH and you start plummeting like God intended straight down.

Yeah, and!?!? Nobody is saying that you cant deploy parachute in the end.

Now, a high-tech workshop powered armor with limited glide or flight / falling controls would seem more fitting. Possibly infused with those exotics to reduce gravity / mass interactions like some of the modules do? Not something you're going to craft by hand on your workbench though.

Jesus F Christ. dunking on realistic scenario, just to replace it with utterly absurd one. With entire thing relying on macguffin of exotics.

I still don't think it's a good fit for the setting though. You're a prospector on Icarus trying to get rich not a thrill seeker willing to take large unnecessary risks.

What ability to rapidly traverse large distances has anything to do with thrill-seeking and taking unnecessary risks? Especially comparing to the fact that player can take on assignments to hunt various dangerous animals. How that fits into your paradigm of not taking unnecessary risks?
Use your brain, Jesus F Christ.

[Rekal]

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

Originally posted by Rekal:

I appreciate the appeal, but I think Icarus tries to stick to reality in most cases not involving exotics. I don't think it's a good fit for the setting.

What is unrealistic about it? Glide suits are a thing.
And considering that there are mountains everywhere, gliders make perfect sense.

Wingsuits have been hyped up in video games as fun ways to get around and I agree, they are fun. However physics (and thus reality) just doesn't work the way those games portray the wingsuit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45qbJSvfv-c

Most wingsuit flights end with a parachute landing. Anything less usually results in fatalities because a wing suit simply does not have a slow enough stall speed to be survivable. IE You slow your forward momentum down below 100+ MPH and you start plummeting like God intended straight down.

Yeah, and!?!? Nobody is saying that you cant deploy parachute in the end.

Now, a high-tech workshop powered armor with limited glide or flight / falling controls would seem more fitting. Possibly infused with those exotics to reduce gravity / mass interactions like some of the modules do? Not something you're going to craft by hand on your workbench though.

Jesus F Christ. dunking on realistic scenario, just to replace it with utterly absurd one. With entire thing relying on macguffin of exotics.

I still don't think it's a good fit for the setting though. You're a prospector on Icarus trying to get rich not a thrill seeker willing to take large unnecessary risks.

What ability to rapidly traverse large distances has anything to do with thrill-seeking and taking unnecessary risks? Especially comparing to the fact that player can take on assignments to hunt various dangerous animals. How that fits into your paradigm of not taking unnecessary risks?
Use your brain, Jesus F Christ.

Wow. Did I touch a nerve or something? Why so angry? We're just having a discussion here.

What is unrealistic about pop-out wing suits in video games?

First of all pop out wings portrayed in games are not tailor made full body wing suits so the amount of lift just isn't there for a human body. Not enough lift, no gliding, just falling.

Second, games never portray the actual speed required for a wingsuit to reach a proper glide profile which is usually 90+ miles per hour. You have to free fall quite a while - around four seconds - before the your speed reaches aerodynamic lift levels required to glide. Gliding of course means moving horizontally more than you're falling vertically. Even at the proper speeds the wingsuit's glide slope is around 3 to 1, meaning every 3 feet forward you drop 1 foot so unpowered it's not even a good method of travel - you're mostly just falling if you include the fall to pick up speed and the slow fall with the parachute at the end. Hang gliders can hit ~15 to 1 and sailplanes can hit 30+ to 1. Wingsuits are not good gliders.

Third, games never portray the landings realistically. Since they're not going nearly fast enough to be gliding realistically in the first place your character just lands on your feet and walks right off. Realistically if you hit the ground traveling 90+ miles per hour you become a red smear. Parachutes are required for landing, and parachutes require hundreds of feet of elevation to deploy and start slowing you down. Games with instant deploy and re-deploy parachutes get that all wrong too. /shrug But they're games meant to be fun and having to spend hours repacking your parachute after every two story building jump wouldn't be fun.

Physics says wing suits don't work the way most games portray them. If you want them "realistic" in game and to be actually useful you have to add some unrealistic mechanic to them. A simple hand-wavy answer would be exotics like I said. What was so hard to understand about that?

The OP didn't mention anything about rapidly traversing long distances. He wanted to glide over the landscape which is fun and thrilling. Pay attention. The OP as written wants to enjoy the game a different way which is why I added the potential alternative powered suit after "dunking" on the viability of a normal wing suit. If this was instead a request for some form of fast travel or just faster movement I wouldn't have even bothered posting. Fast travel just removes a big chunk of the game - the preparation, effort, risks, and dangers of traveling on Icarus. Faster movement just causes the Unreal Engine 4 to choke on itself which is why the Devs have already stated they're not adding faster vehicles.

How do I reconcile the risks of fighting dangerous animals versus the risk of diving head first into the ground...to get there faster? One is a job objective you're being paid to face, and the other is you being a thrill seeker when you could have just safely walked. That's not hard to understand is it? I mean, using my brain comes to that conclusion reasonably fast.

[Bickie]

I don't believe it would be capable of traversing long distances, more a means to descend rapidly without risk but also covering some ground at the same time would be nice. It's also more fun than a parachute.

My current method involves jumping from great heights into water, usually with predictable results as I never check how deep the water is 😁


As for realism, it's been suspended quite a bit in this game so a wingsuit bending the laws of physics a little shouldn't be going too far beyond what is possible.

[Dirmagnos]

Originally posted by Rekal:

Wow. Did I touch a nerve or something? Why so angry? We're just having a discussion here.

My issue that first you use extreme standards, then absurd standards and then double standards on top of it.
First you have problem that this idea is not completely realistic, Even tho this entire game is not completely realistic. With plenty of leniency given due to gameplay. Otherwise player would be dying ten times a day. Rendering whole objection absurd.
While idea can be challenged, this line of objection is nonsensical.
And then your "alternative" is "high-tech workshop powered armor with limited glide or flight / falling controls... Possibly infused with those exotics to reduce gravity / mass interactions". Apparently wingsuit is not realistic, but power armor powered by macguffin is?!?!
Even your own logic fails at it. If you can use magical stones to reduce gravity for far heavier, clunkier and technologically demanding "power armor", then what stops it being used on far simples, lighter wingsuit?!

First of all pop out wings portrayed in games are not tailor made full body wing suits so the amount of lift just isn't there for a human body. Not enough lift, no gliding, just falling.

Not even remotely true. It all depends on variety of factors, like materials used, design and environmental factors. Something like carbon fiber fixed wing segmented deployable wingsuit, with enough lift surface is close enough to fit into given settings.

You have to free fall quite a while - around four seconds - before the your speed reaches aerodynamic lift levels required to glide.

Not true. It depends on numerous factors, from weight to shape to wing span to temperatures and about hundred other conditions.

Gliding of course means moving horizontally more than you're falling vertically.

Not even remotely true. According to Merriam-Webster "glide" in this context means "to descend gradually in controlled flight". There is no condition for what proportion of movement has to be horizontal and what vertical.

Realistically if you hit the ground traveling 90+ miles per hour you become a red smear.

People have survived falling at termina velocities of over 120 mph, so your claim of red smear at 90 mph is nonsensical. I am not even sure if it is possible to become red smear for human body. High velocities would simply result in body disintegration into red mist, rather than smear.

Parachutes are required for landing, and parachutes require hundreds of feet of elevation to deploy and start slowing you down. Games with instant deploy and re-deploy parachutes get that all wrong too.

"The lowest recorded altitude to open a parachute is 95ft for someone who falls at below terminal velocity (182 ft/s) and 800ft for someone who falls at terminal velocity. In theory, skydivers could open their parachute as low as 600ft when falling at terminal velocity, which, in practice, not even extreme athletes have tried to achieve so far."

Physics says wing suits don't work the way most games portray them. If you want them "realistic" in game and to be actually useful you have to add some unrealistic mechanic to them. A simple hand-wavy answer would be exotics like I said. What was so hard to understand about that?

Most of the things in games do not work same way they are irl.
Using exotics as some sort of magical element, as solution to every problem, is lame.

The OP as written wants to enjoy the game a different way which is why I added the potential alternative powered suit after "dunking" on the viability of a normal wing suit.

Which is worse idea than his. And even more unrealistic, that was core point of your argument.

Fast travel just removes a big chunk of the game - the preparation, effort, risks, and dangers of traveling on Icarus.

Dont forget tedium. Environment is not dangerous enough for any of what you mentioned to matter. Main limiting factors is not risks and dangers, but stamina.
I am playing with teleportation mod and could not be happier. Saves me a lot of time and boredom or running back and forth. Especially now, that i move my base to new place. I would probably quit the game, before i would be able to transport everything.

How do I reconcile the risks of fighting dangerous animals versus the risk of diving head first into the ground...to get there faster? One is a job objective you're being paid to face, and the other is you being a thrill seeker when you could have just safely walked. That's not hard to understand is it? I mean, using my brain comes to that conclusion reasonably fast.

So which one is it? "Risks of fighting dangerous animals" or "could have just safely walked"?
You really need to use your brain harder.

In the end my idea is obviously better than both of yours. We take a small chunk of magic rock, we crush it, we snort resulting powder and then we gain ability to fly for an hour. At level 2 we learn how to make concentrate and pack into a pill, enhancing effect - speed, duration and height. There could even be an entire talent tree for this, called Heisenberg Folly(in honor of Werner Heisenberg). Antigrav to the masses. Whiff and fly. Is it amazing idea or is it amazing idea?!

[Rekal]

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

My issue that first you use extreme standards, then absurd standards and then double standards on top of it.
First you have problem that this idea is not completely realistic, Even tho this entire game is not completely realistic. With plenty of leniency given due to gameplay. Otherwise player would be dying ten times a day. Rendering whole objection absurd.
While idea can be challenged, this line of objection is nonsensical.
And then your "alternative" is "high-tech workshop powered armor with limited glide or flight / falling controls... Possibly infused with those exotics to reduce gravity / mass interactions". Apparently wingsuit is not realistic, but power armor powered by macguffin is?!?!
Even your own logic fails at it. If you can use magical stones to reduce gravity for far heavier, clunkier and technologically demanding "power armor", then what stops it being used on far simples, lighter wingsuit?!

Why are you even arguing if you're not going to bother reading and understanding? The first line in my first post clearly states "Icarus tries to stick to reality in most cases not involving exotics." It's not some double standard I've created, it's literally the setting of the game. A setting which you seem to be fairly ignorant of and that's okay. There's no rule that says you have to know what you're talking about on an internet forum.

If you were familiar with the setting you would understand that you as the player do not have the ability to process the exotics into anything usable on planet. All of the exotic items are processed and manufactured in orbit.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

Not even remotely true. It all depends on variety of factors, like materials used, design and environmental factors. Something like carbon fiber fixed wing segmented deployable wingsuit, with enough lift surface is close enough to fit into given settings.

Standards, remember? The standard for this discussion is Wing Suits. You just described a folding hang glider. Not the same thing.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

Not true. It depends on numerous factors, from weight to shape to wing span to temperatures and about hundred other conditions.

/sigh I think you're just being argumentative because you've let your logic out to potty in the yard and it never came back. Yes, if there is a 150 mph updraft you're not going to fall. Congratulations, I was wrong.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

Not even remotely true. According to Merriam-Webster "glide" in this context means "to descend gradually in controlled flight". There is no condition for what proportion of movement has to be horizontal and what vertical.

Fantastic. You've found a definition that is uselessly broad to try and make a point and failed spectacularly. If you are moving below your stall speed you are no longer in controlled flight. If you're not in controlled flight by your definition you are no longer gliding. Wingsuits (remember the actual topic?) were what I was referring to and they require a high rate of speed to glide. If that speed is not horizontal then you're not descending "gradually" which again is not gliding per your definition. You completely ignored the context and topic of the post to try to score your internet points. Nice try.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

People have survived falling at termina velocities of over 120 mph, so your claim of red smear at 90 mph is nonsensical. I am not even sure if it is possible to become red smear for human body. High velocities would simply result in body disintegration into red mist, rather than smear.

Hyperbole is lost on you. Again going for points on a pointless statement. Sad.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

"The lowest recorded altitude to open a parachute is 95ft for someone who falls at below terminal velocity (182 ft/s) and 800ft for someone who falls at terminal velocity. In theory, skydivers could open their parachute as low as 600ft when falling at terminal velocity, which, in practice, not even extreme athletes have tried to achieve so far."

Yes? That's what I said. Why the quotes if you're not going to cite the statement you copied?

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

Most of the things in games do not work same way they are irl.
Using exotics as some sort of magical element, as solution to every problem, is lame.

You've lost me here. There is no problem. Asking for wingsuits in a game isn't a problem. It's a request for a feature. If you don't want an in setting explanation for every little detail then don't stress about it and certainly don't post on the forums arguing against them. Just play your fantasy game happy in your ignorance of the setting.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

Which is worse idea than his. And even more unrealistic, that was core point of your argument.

So really, you just don't like the idea of exotics being some wonder material which is the in game setting and entire purpose of prospectors being on Icarus. That's fine, there are other games without it if it bothers you that much.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

Dont forget tedium. Environment is not dangerous enough for any of what you mentioned to matter. Main limiting factors is not risks and dangers, but stamina.

So you've "mastered" the game and travel is no longer a dangerous adventure to you. Congrats. Try without your titanium gear, firearms, and composite armor. A little more care is required then. Just because you don't enjoy the challenge doesn't mean the challenge doesn't exist.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

I am playing with teleportation mod and could not be happier. Saves me a lot of time and boredom or running back and forth. Especially now, that i move my base to new place. I would probably quit the game, before i would be able to transport everything.

So you've stopped playing normal Icarus and with mods have embraced one of the most unrealistic fantasy modes of travel ever created... It doesn't use exotics does it? How do you explain how it works without exotics? I mean, you are so concerned and critical with how I offered an exotics powered wingsuit alternative you must have an explanation for how your teleportation works. Right? I bet it's a pretty lame explanation.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

So which one is it? "Risks of fighting dangerous animals" or "could have just safely walked"?
You really need to use your brain harder.

I think you've lost the plot here - probably ran off with your Logic. Let me explain it like you're five. There are two dangerous things. One is animal that you need to fight to earn money. The other is using a wingsuit to go from point A to point B. To earn money you have to face that animal, it's dangerous but you feel the reward is worth the risk. To go from point A to point B you don't need to use the wingsuit, you can just walk. One risk if you choose to face it has an appropriate reward, the other is entirely optional with no tangible benefit thus doing it is a form of thrill seeking.

Originally posted by Dirmagnos:

In the end my idea is obviously better than both of yours. We take a small chunk of magic rock, we crush it, we snort resulting powder and then we gain ability to fly for an hour. At level 2 we learn how to make concentrate and pack into a pill, enhancing effect - speed, duration and height. There could even be an entire talent tree for this, called Heisenberg Folly(in honor of Werner Heisenberg). Antigrav to the masses. Whiff and fly. Is it amazing idea or is it amazing idea?!

Old news. Other games have implemented it already. You shouldn't plagiarize other peoples work. Try to be creative with your own ideas.