Remove the permadeath

[Baric]

I just can't figure a single positive benefit from the permadeath mechanic in Icarus.

It is also problematical since:
1. Most players don't know about it
2. It is never going to happen for a normal gameplay reason
3. It is perfect reason to stop playing

I am sure 98% of permadeaths will happen because player doesn't know about it, they forget they have a mission open or they run into technical reason like internet or hardware issues.

I also really hope Icarus will never have server side issues that prevent people from returning or there will truly be hell to pay.

But above all, how many players will actually roll a new character once you kill of character they have spent 50 or 100 hours of grinding levels? 20%? 10%? Even less?

Permadeath is for games that actually offer different experience the second time around, Icarus certainly is not that.

[Natjur]

Later missions that give insane rewards but only a 1-2 hr mission timer, needs to have some 'punishment' or it will just be an easy farm.

[Baric]

Doesn't really negate any of my points.

Do you believe that significant amount of people will lose their characters because they calculated the time to run back wrong vs all the other reasons?

Short timer permadeaths will just make even short connection issues, server bugs, blackouts etc. the cause for people to lose their character and ragequit the game.

Anyway, high reward vs permadeath is only fun when starting again from the beginning is fun. If half the reviews complain about grind and repetitive gameplay, the game is at the other end of the spectrum.

[PAX_]

I dont have a "final" position about the permadeath but, i would like to add: You can have (And looks like you need) more than 1 character. And your workshop progression remains, so it turns out easier to "level up" as you progress. But, yes, sure, the permadeath does scares me...

I belive that right now, people are used to the "old ways" of survival gaming. You dont have to finish a mission, if you see that you cant, just go back, "retreat"... Better lose some exp than the whole character, right?. That is the whole point of prospectors risking their lives and the session based idea.... I see people saying that tatch building are useless, but they are thinking in the "old way" like permanent bases. You need a shelter, not a house. Once the storm goes away, you can "unmount camp" and go to the next spot.... Tatch skill tree is an inexpensive, light way of carrying your camp, or even to build a fast safe respaw....

Anyway, i am just trying to say that you dont lose -all- your progression, you will only lose what you risk for.

[J-Sheridan]

The current session based mechanic does not make that much sense.
I can see the idea of "windows" existing that allow the player to leave. If they player misses that window - they have to wait till the next window.
They do not just instantly 'die' and have the character vanish.
The gap between windows could be made dependent on mission so that if a player misses a a window, they have to wait a variable amount of time until the next.

Thus, they player needs to survive on the planet without any way to exit until the next window.
This would force base building AND also add the ability for players to stay on a map for as long as they want.

This removes permadeath, allows people to stay on maps as long as they want and still uses the timer system to encourage people to move quickly if they want to get out before being forced to stay for an extended time on the map for the next window.

You could even make missing the window result in harsher environmental effects that force a harder survival time until the next window for added challenge.

[Roader Frost]

It can be "fun" if you PC died form the stress or video card burned out... and then you can't get in game for several days.

But no. Permadeath make this game unique. It's a feature to be remembered (hated too).

[hazelrah]

Publicado originalmente por J-Sheridan:

The current session based mechanic does not make that much sense.
I can see the idea of "windows" existing that allow the player to leave. If they player misses that window - they have to wait till the next window.
They do not just instantly 'die' and have the character vanish.
The gap between windows could be made dependent on mission so that if a player misses a a window, they have to wait a variable amount of time until the next.

Thus, they player needs to survive on the planet without any way to exit until the next window.
This would force base building AND also add the ability for players to stay on a map for as long as they want.

This removes permadeath, allows people to stay on maps as long as they want and still uses the timer system to encourage people to move quickly if they want to get out before being forced to stay for an extended time on the map for the next window.

You could even make missing the window result in harsher environmental effects that force a harder survival time until the next window for added challenge.

YES! I've said pretty much exactly this elsewhere.

[crawford]

Do people really buy a game without minimal research into its play?

I have sympathy for getting stranded when you have a hardware failure, but the mission/session/prospect is one of the core design goals. Maybe a compromise of being able to "rescue" a character from a prospect? It should have some penalty -- no awards for any progress on the mission maybe (though I'd leave experience in-place; the rescue didn't erase their memories).

[andrudis]

Permadeath could be a good game-play mechanic if it is a part of core game-play loop where any death is permanent and players will unavoidably die again, and again, and again losing their current character and moving to a new one. Unfortunately because of poor design in Icarus permadeath is just a punishment for people, who have technical or real life issues - it is a "punishment for not playing the game" and nothing more. It is not a part of core game-play loop because people without those issue will always be able to extract in time if they want to, and they could never encounter this permadeath mechanic at all.

In the game where you can die and be resurrected without any penalty by teammates infinite number of times or can abuse re-spawn system to teleport quickly across the whole map, adding permadeath as a punishment for NOT playing the game is a very poor design decision.

A good permadeath implementation for Icarus could be something like that:
1) Any death is permanent for the character. Player can create a new character and send him/her to the same prospect to continue as long as timer has not ran out, but the character will start from level 0.
2) No re-spawns or team resurrections
3) Tech tree is account-based and not character-based, i.e. you unlock new blueprints for account by playing game and those blueprints could be used by all prospectors(with exception for some blueprints that also require talents)

With such design permadeath by "not playing" is just on of many ways to permanently lose your prospector and permadeath itself is unavoidable part of game-play loop. There are many other possible game-loop designs where permadeath would be a good and welcomed part of game-play, but current implementation is far from this yet...

[Baric]

Publicado originalmente por crawford:

Do people really buy a game without minimal research into its play?

I have sympathy for getting stranded when you have a hardware failure, but the mission/session/prospect is one of the core design goals. Maybe a compromise of being able to "rescue" a character from a prospect? It should have some penalty -- no awards for any progress on the mission maybe (though I'd leave experience in-place; the rescue didn't erase their memories).

I readily admit I do not research every game I buy that much. Not that it would have actually prevented me from buying it. I would also argue that noticing the permadeath related to the timer is not something you currently come across with minimal research. It is not currently mentioned on the steam page or the tags for the game. It is not even prominently explained inside the game.

Anyway it has not happened to me and I don't think I would actually run into this without some sort of hardware / connection failure. I also am not against permadeath mechanics in games as such.

This just irks me professionally since it seems such a bad fit for rest of the game. It just feels more of a remnant from some long ago vision board than something that is actually there to make the game that we now have more challenging and fun.

There are already so many good ideas here on how to make the feature better, I really hope the developers take notes.

[Greasy Mullet]

Permadeath sucks. Period.

[Wilky926]

Totally agree. Mid run and have a family emergency. Bye bye character and 24 hours of work....

Make it optional at the very least so those who want it can have it, but for me failing a mission and receiving zero rewards is punishment enough for hours invested in a prospect. Permanently losing my character through no fault of my own is enough to make me never come back.

[Imperial Guardsman]

Permadeath is fine, but the bullsh1t ways it happens isn't.

[Adam413]

Publicado originalmente por crawford:

Do people really buy a game without minimal research into its play?

I have sympathy for getting stranded when you have a hardware failure, but the mission/session/prospect is one of the core design goals. Maybe a compromise of being able to "rescue" a character from a prospect? It should have some penalty -- no awards for any progress on the mission maybe (though I'd leave experience in-place; the rescue didn't erase their memories).

Yes, actually, a lot of people. Why do you think companies make "visually appealing" trailers and then the actual game ends up dog stuff?

The "tutorial" does not really put much effort into actually telling you that if you don't leave your character will 'die'. Sure there's a counter on the top and in several places, but that is not enough. And just because it's enough for "you" doesn't mean it's enough for everyone else.

IMO with regards to the permadeath, it shouldn't exist if you are able to "respawn" during a prospect. If you die you DIE. But magically just because I didn't leave in 7 days or less I actually die? That doesn't make sense.

[MetalFreak]

i think "hardcore" is spread by other games in the gaming genre ... never seen it used in any other way.
seems like the game is just for groups in the later missions, as a solo doing the hardcore runs is unrewarding and super risky