Indirect Fire?

[Paul59]

Can mortar units use indirect fire in this game? I cannot see anything in the manual about it.

[jo.bader]

mortars allways use indirect fire but need a LOS to the target.

[Paul59]

Originally posted by jo.bader:

mortars allways use indirect fire but need a LOS to the target.

Sorry Jo, I am confused.

Maybe I don't understand your terminology, because if they have LOS, I would call that direct fire.

[[1stWTVIR] Topgumby]

This. There needs to be a way for a commander to transfer LOS to mortars via radio or wire or runner. Defenders should be able to spend points to "pre register" certain hexes.

[fpguy]

A dedicated Forward Observer would be a good thing.Mortar crews wouldnt be exposed to enemy fire as much

[Boredflak]

Mortars are an indirect fire weapon, It fires in an arc, and cannot fire directly, I do not have the game but a mortar should be able to fire on any point within its fire range LOS or not. It should be much more effective if it has a LOS. But even without one it should be able to fire on other points.

[starbuck310]

A mortar is indirect and could lob its bombs at a grid square. Totally ineffective. It’s either spotted or LOS. I’d also mention that at this scale communication in WW2 was pretty poor to non existent especially in the Russian army. At best laying line for field telephones. So LOS mortar fire is pretty much the most accurate representation for mortars in this period.

[[1stWTVIR] Topgumby]

Maybe for the Russians early on but the Germans and the Western Allies made extensive use of indirect fire from supporting arms including 60mm mortars.

[starbuck310]

They certainly did but what was in question was how fire was brought to bear and adjusted. Have a look here some 1946 documents. As I said it was mostly via OP's, telephone line, firing on fixed points, areas etc. These give a good flavour of how it was done. Note it wasnt adjusted by all arms units as it might today. Wandering around the battlefield with a 81mm bases plate or tube is neither fast not recommended. The setup taking some time. 2" used by British and 60mm etc were very portable and used in indirect support to the Pl/Coy/Bn but not formation. Simply did'nt have the range and mostly used for ilum.

https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ontheway/index.html
https://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/mortar-fire.html

[midgard30]

Why not just give a Fire power or precision penalty if not in LOS?

[dumba]

Originally posted by jo.bader:

mortars allways use indirect fire but need a LOS to the target.

Not sure I understand this, why would a mortar need LOS?

[AP514]

Mortars- have to have LOS..the Actual Crew. Just how it is atm

[starbuck310]

I’d agree with your comments for the modern era. But I’d point out that radio comms and trained observers weren’t common especially in the early part of the war. I’d suggest that by the late war Germany suffers from a lack of trained personnel. Same for the Soviet’s early war. Soviet doctrine was to mass mortars and deploy them in batteries and controlled by telephone. Certainly allied forces used observers or fire plans

[[1stWTVIR] Topgumby]

US units had a lot more comm gear, more ammo for supporting arms, and the use of observers or commanders to direct and adjust fire support by using radios and telephone lines was common enough to be a major influence that should be in a game like this.

[jo.bader]

Originally posted by 1stTX Cpl. MSgtE:

US units had a lot more comm gear, more ammo for supporting arms, and the use of observers or commanders to direct and adjust fire support by using radios and telephone lines was common enough to be a major influence that should be in a game like this.

yes true. Artillery Support will be added later and will not be in the Release Version.

[Gurggulk]

Just a dogface 11B. Barking into the abyss about my brothers in arms, 11C's.
"High Angle Hell", is my sincere compliment to them.

Well written article about the mortarman.

GRAFENWOEHR, Germany --

Indirect fire infantrymen, colloquially known as mortarmen, are often shunned in the community of grunts. They participate in the same mission as their compatriots who hold an 11B military occupational specialty designator, they carry asinine masses of weight on their back, they hunker down in the nasty crags of the bush, yet they constantly fight to be recognized as members of the infantry.

In the 173rd Airborne Brigade, they are also Paratroopers who willingly leap from aircraft with ambitious intent to rapidly deliver death at the doorstep of the enemy.

According to the National Park Service, American mortar utilization in warfare dates back to the Revolutionary War, when General George Washington's Army defeated General Lord Cornwallis' Army in the battle of Yorktown.

However, in those days, mortarmen were not considered part of the infantry, but instead the artillery. It was not until WWI in the midst of austere trench warfare that mortarmen were integrated into the infantry because, as the adage goes, 'necessity breeds innovation.'

"With both armies dug in and facing each other in heavily wired and fortified lines of trenches, the need for some type of close artillery support controlled by infantry units asserted itself almost immediately," Virgil Nye wrote in Evolution of the U.S. Army Infantry Mortar Squad: The Argonne to Pleiku.

The exploding capabilities of the round allowed shrapnel to shower down on the enemy, multiplying the lethal effects and securing a clear advantage over the entrenched army. It was the Germans that invented the first trench mortar system, the Minenwerfer.

In 1935 French ironworker Edward William Brandt engineered the Brandt mle 27/31 mortar system which the United States studied, derived from and transmuted into the M1 81mm and M2 60mm mortar systems. Both were liberally utilized during WWII.

Accompanying the normal stressors of being an infantryman such as carrying astronomical amounts of weight, walking unforeseen distances and being on the front-lines of combat, mortarmen possess a technical expertise that, if not properly mastered, can swiftly turn circumstances awry.

Complete article link.

https://www.army.mil/article/195721/mortarmen_the_dark_horse_of_the_infantry