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There are ways to get things done. There is time to get *almost* everything done... which is kind of the point. Every game in this genre doesn't give you enough time to do everything, it's part of the "game". Otherwise we don't "manage" anything, we just do stuff and fill boxes with everything we can find just in case.
How many rooms do you have..?
What menu choices did you make..?
How many superfluous things did you get involved with that are just time sinks that give you little to show for your efforts..?
Without knowing what you're doing, it's hard to say where you could be more profitable.
All I know is it's impossible in this game to be unprofitable...
You can't help but make money as you go. The first spring and summer can be a bit rough, but by fall and the planting of the rye you should be well on your way to never worrying about money again.
Some generic rules of thumb I use...:
Make rooms upstairs and get a decent housekeeper. The base gold from rooms is an excellent foundation to work from. You can have 7 or 8 going pretty early on if you actively go after Rep to get the caps raised. Add rooms. Make it a priority. If you can do the haggling you can make even more. I let the housekeeper do it, I make out fine.
Your customer count is fixed and tied to your Reputation and Tavern Level. Reputation to get that +1 customer per level is key. (...I really don't like this system. It's too arbitrary and grindy. You never have good or bad days, just "days"...)
You did decorate the snot out of everything, yes..? Hit your build key and look lower Right. What's the number there..? 100? 200? 800? That number is where all those Rep scores come from when guests leave. Decorations play a part in that, so make it pretty.
Once rooms are set, you can handle the customer counts. Get employees with the extra customer perk. I currently pull +15 customers. They buy things... ?B)
But isn't that the OP concern..? That the staff can't handle the load..? Well. They handle 60 guests and 8 rooms just fine. I can augment the bar when I have time and clear the line and make more cash if I want to, but usually I only do it on visitor days.
Don't go out and make everything just because you can. One of the single hardest things to do in this game is say no to making or doing something just because you can. You really need to tailor your builds, your recipes and your active menu to what you can get that costs you the least time.
It may look like less money, but getting a few silver on a dish that costs you 3x the time and forces you to acquire ingredients over what you forage is not as profitable as one that you just pick up the stuff to make for free.
Lastly, Time is your enemy, not money... I craft aging barrels, 4 person tables and benches and candles because bees need to have something to do too. Otherwise I buy it. No blueprints, no crafting. "...but I saving da monies..." Nonsense. (...ooh...that's a little harsh...)Your time is infinitely more valuable. I always think in terms of what will be profitable, not necessarily pricey.
I spend money like water just to spend it and I'm still riding a grand in gold and it grows a bit each day as I do not worry about money at all. I have a *small* bank compared to many. I don't harp on big cash numbers. Time is what matters to me. No stress is good for me.
I imagine this will change as the game fleshes out and more things need to be done/bought. More money sinks will appear as we start talking to neighbors and making magic the gatherings and learning to speak and spell, so I'm not concerned about all that Gold hanging out at my house. It'll get spent eventually, and I'll make more.
TL: DR..: Is your life really that short..? It isn't. Stop letting them push you into a mentality of not having 3 minutes to read something. Take some time to realize you are alive, and taking a few minutes to get lost in thoughts is a good thing. Take the time to read and stop letting them take away all the simple pleasures of life.
This may not be what you were wanting to see... If not, post particulars. Many here are glad to help you make your coin. ?B)
Cheers..!
Does the waitress or housekeeper ever clean up messes on the dining room floor? If so, buy more magic brooms and spread them around.
I have 7 guest rooms. I do help the housekeeper with cleaning most days, but if I don't he does fine. He always rents out all the rooms when I help, He often doesn't rent all the rooms if I don't help clean. (I wish magic brooms in guest rooms would work.)
Employees with speed boosts keep up better. My employees do not have speed boosts, and still manage to keep up. I'm level 42 and often have 55+ customers.
My comfort level in my dining room is 832. That means I get a lot of reputation per customer.
Leave your tavern shut occasionally. If it is closed, you don't have to pay the employees. You can catch up on cooking and brewing. This is also handy if you are working a quest line, like fishing or the Christmas tasks. (Fish for achievements. Fishing is not a good way to get fish for the kitchen.)
Go shopping every Monday/Tuesday and again every Thursday/Friday.
Thank you such a long, comprehensive reply!
Let's begin with the most elemental: I have 36 in Reputation, 42 max occupancy, and 489 in Decoration.
I currently have 3 rooms, about to set up the 4th. I guess rooms is something I haven't exploited all that much.
As far menu goes, I try to keep as many food items as will fill the menu options, and keep a little surplus of dishes on a chest. I largely try to keep more expensive items, like Moussaka, Steamed Eggplants, Scrambled Mushrooms, Broccoli Stir-fry, etc... I also keep various more mid-range price items. I prioritize dishes that cost easy ingredients but yield decent profit.
On the side of drinks, I usually keep the tabs full with with different flavored beers. For the flavors I mostly use Coconuts, Strawberries, Melon, Watermelon... all of those fruits I have in abundance (although coconuts require more effort) and are among the expensive ones. For the beers, I try to produce all of them and switch 'em up a little for fun, but I do prioritize Chocolate Lager, Vanilla Ale, Dunkel and Strong Ale as they're more expensive.
For spirits, I mostly just stick to Vokda, Whiskey and Rum for the prices; I hardly mix drinks with the cocktail table as most profitable mixes are very demanding on hard-to-get ingredients, so mostly Sangria and Bloody Marys. I avoid Herbal Liquor as I feel it's a chore to go gather herbs, and I spend them quite a bit in dishes.
Most of my money is spent buying meats and fish in the City, or expanding my tavern/rooms. Also, I have only just purchased my first Barn and my second Chicken coop.
Now back to my initial point: I have all large tables and 2 small ones. If I open in the morning and go tend to my crops, or mushroom hunting, or to the City, and come back in the afternoon, the waitress has lagged behind and the majority of tables are dirty. The barkeep sometimes grabs 7 drinks in a row while a couple of clients get fed up and walk away detracting reputation points.
So now I'm switching to just taking the mornings off and opening the tavern with my full attention and presence around noon when I have rushed to do the minimum to keep progressing and getting more ingredients together (and to be fair, I do have somewhat of a surplus for most veggie type ingredients), but I felt the drop in income trying to fund the expensive stuff, like the Barn. I just feel after the last couple of tables, my tavern can't run autonomously.
Thank you for your reply! I have included a lot of the pertinent information above in another reply.
I have come to the point where I do that (staying closed while I manage other tasks), but when saving up for the Barn, I really felt the drop in income by skipping some opening hours. It does feel necessary though, after the last couple of tables it feels like the waitress can't keep with the cleaning and deliveries, and reputation points begin to suffer.
I have wondered a lot, about the benefits of the employee speed boosts vs. other perks, my Bouncer has the Supervisor perk (that grants 20% speed boost to the other employees).
The cleaning brooms confuse the hell out of me. I placed one in my tavern and it works great, I placed one on the second floor because it wouldn't move on the tavern, and it only comes down to clean the tavern, but not the floor spills on rooms. Does having more brooms really work in the tavern? I guess I gotta try.
Lastly, I spend about 50% more on staff than the profit I keep. Does this seem right in your experience? It just baffles me how other people on these forums talk about having thousands of gold when I struggle to save up for the Barn.
I keep complaining that magic brooms don't work in the guest rooms. I wish they would, it would help the housekeeper. I have a broom in each guest room, but they don't do anything at all.
No employees should sweep anywhere except in the guest rooms. (Other than the end of day. When all the customers leave at once, they make such a mess that the employees have to sweep too.)
Once the waitress stops sweeping floors, she'll have more time for other stuff like cleaning tables.
I don't know why your bartender falls behind so far that customers leave. I don't experience that.
Staff is your major cost, and will take more than 50% of your revenue. Your profit will be less than you pay your staff. This is normal in game and irl.
I haven't bought a barn or a chicken coop. If you shop twice a week, you shouldn't need them. I have $3.5K. Money is tight while you're still growing. Guest rooms take a lot of money to build.
I would definitely buy another 4 or 5 brooms before buying the barn or another chicken coop, or even before buying more guest rooms. Increasing guest satisfaction will help you out a lot.
That's a good option, but the staff shoudn't be so bad. Keep on eye on the list of prospective enployers and substitute your for new ones with better perks, or not so bad cons.
You're just at the middle game, so you're still at the point to build your reserves, that's why your shopping seems to be more expensive than your profit.
Shopping is expensive at this point. If you want to save money for a project, like a new room, try to shop less for a while and do what you can with the ingredients that you can grow, forage or get from your animals.
Don't worry too much, sooner all that you built will return your money and them some. Endgame you won't know what to do with the money, so untill them keep managing and doing your projects.
I currently run 60+ guests, with a base of 48. I have 3 +5, so 63 is the top give or take. I have 8 rooms, so a decent chunk of foundation money for sure.
My people handle it all just fine with the exception of my Bouncer. She has the "likes to take breaks a lot" trait, so I have to swing by and baby sit once in awhile to make sure she isn't just standing around outside. That has a direct influence on Rep, as any unruly guests will make the scores go down...
A few suggestions based on your answers, and always your mileage will vary...
You need about 5-8 float in your seating, so for you if you can seat 50 it's enough. Anything more and you are just spreading your people thin.
Large table take longer to clean. I much prefer the 4 person tables. Aside from the fact I can craft them effectively, I can arrange them better and my staff doesn't spend an eternity cleaning those tables. Only now as I need the cap I use them to get my seating to 70 or so for the float.
Why the float..? Watch your customers. They will either come in and go to the bar or they will go sit down first. Without that room, they don't come in and sit. As that 5 person bar is the only place you can make your money, getting people in and out and served and sat is *everything*...
I would suggest reworking you menu around forage items and items easily bought. The money in secondary, TIME is what makes you or breaks you. Getting things done.
My current score is over 800, I get 600 plus from most guests as they leave. Visitor day is quite fun... I'll nab over a thousand on most rooms letting the housekeeper grab the guest. They give a ton of rep when they get "a deal" on a room.
There's a bunch more but off I must go...
Cheers..!
There are no time constraints. You can be closed for a week with no repercussions, farm, fish gather resources. Use the free time available to you. I close on Monday and Thursdays because that's when map resources respawn but I'm at the point now where I don't need to do it, except for junk for Wilson and fishing. The bird is useful for rep, but needing crackers and making sure he is tamed costs money and you being there to train him, which works fine when you are running the bar yourself.
You might have too many tables for the waitress to deal with. Mine honestly can just about keep the tables clean, and I still help out with that. I do find it a bit crazy that after 200 hours, you are only making 2-4 gold a day.
These two things were not obvious to me when I first got to hire people on my first save, but my income way so low I struggled to even afford opening with all staff present.
Now, I take the staff with -visitor cap, so they could actually be able to do all the work without my help and I could do the cooking and ingredient gathering. Yes, that makes progress slower, but I almost never get negative rep. Something something quality over quantity. And I also don't need the enourmous huge dining hall as a bonus (that decreases chances of bad service even further).
Adjusting your menu to match the bonus your staff provides can be a nice boost - like specialising on hard/soft drinks, meat/veg foods, morning/evening shifts etc.
Every copper you make should be spent freeing you up to do more important things, or making your time more valuable. If things are getting out of control, don't be afraid to cut back. Employees, tables, etc.
For more value on your items you sell, the general rule of thumb is better ingredients (better pizza, Papa Johns) ie more expensive ingredients. One of the early things you can do is Flavored Beer with the Cocktail Bar and have a nice stockpile of Juice, preferably Watermelon, Melon, or Pineapple. It'll effectively double the price on drinks, and Grand Reserve bonus applies to Flavored Beer. Early game, I recommend as many fish based meals as possible. You can always fish more, and when you can't, fish are pretty cheap to buy in a pinch, just don't count on it being the best fish all the time. For a majority of the game, the only grains you need to focus on having a stockpile of are Wheat, Rye, and Rice (arguably Corn if you plan on making Tacos and the like). Wheat and Rye for your drinks, Rye (and Corn, Tacos Rule) for Flour, and Rice for your food as many recipes require it as an ingredient and you can use it for Slop (made from Rice Porridge), also Sake is a pretty penny if you want to throw that on the menu. Tea is great to a point, but eventually it'll just clog up your kegs for more expensive drinks. A couple of runs I haven't bothered with tea, as water is free and I intentionally over produce wine, and sprint to distilleries and cocktails ASAP.
By mid game, my kegs consist of Strong Ale and Dunkel made into Watermelon Flavored Beer (almost exclusively), Cider or Whiskey, Mead, Brandy, Rum, Gin, and Vodka, These are the easiest drinks to have in bulk at any one time, and most are a base for even more expensive Cocktails.
As far as food goes, anything with a Veggie Broth you can bump up in value with Pumpkins preferably, but Broccoli and Cauliflower will do, The same is true with Fish Broth and Meat Broth, however, this can be harder to do with Fish as it's a bit unreliable what you get, and many Fish based recipes require them as a main ingredient. My general rule of thumb on fish is if it's value is lower that 10 silver, it's bait, if it's higher than 15, it's broth, at least a few anyway. Meat Broth you can just buy Lamb. Gordon Ramsay will thank you.
It might seem counter intuitive, but make sure to buy things from merchants, they save you time, not necessarily money. My daily rotation come mid game is checking all the stalls for things for things like pumpkins, melons, shellfish, high value fish, pork for lard, lamb for broths, milk, extra eggs if needed, spices, and herbs. Especially the last two, as they are always in short supply. IMO, it is better to spend time mining and harvesting wood during the weekend as eventually needing to craft things and keep the ovens cooking will be it's own problem. Things like Fish, Meat, and Milk you will turn a profit on, it just won't be as pronounced until you have your own Barn up and going, and is it's own investment and time sink. Most importantly, you need to get a Lemon, Lime, Orange, and Cherry Sprouts for some good cocktails. Apples wouldn't hurt for Cider. As far as Nuts go, Chestnuts and Pistachios are what you're looking for value wise, Walnuts being a close second, but you can't go wrong with any of them, outside of maybe Sunflowers, they are painfully mediocre next to Peanuts. Speaking of which, Peanuts are also something you want to stockpile for Oil and easy to sell things like Nut Bars and Curry Nuts.
That's pretty much it for the menu. A few notable recipes I'd recommend keeping on the menu Early to Mid: Corn Cobs, Steamed Eggplant, Scrambled Mushrooms, Baked Potato, Onion Rings, Potato Fries, Chicken with Olives and Rosemary, Chill, Meat Stew, Birria, Ceviche, Garlic Shrimp, Clams Mariniere, Crab Cake, Mussels in Spicy Sauce, Curry Nuts, Cream of Cauliflower, Turnip Cream Soup, Cream of Potato and Mushroom, Corn Chowder, Rice Balls, Rice with Seafood, Torrijas, Panettone, Mochis, Honey Flan, Sweet Pie, Nut Bar, Fruit Yogurt, Kimchi, Marinated Pickles, and if you can swing it by mid Cheese Board.
As for employees, only hire employees as needed, and only upgrade them as needed. Cost creep can set in especially as you upgrade them. I recommend getting a waiter with the negative of poor floor cleaning speed, as you can supplement them with magical brooms, and speed increase is one of the more ideal choices for a waiter IMO. You can kind of do anything with the bouncer and bartender, but I like a bouncer that doesn't take breaks often and a bartender that loves taking breaks as the two kind of cancel each other out. If you do make the mistake of upgrading too fast or hiring an employee you don't need, say a Housekeeper who's great, but you don't have any rooms to take care of like I did in my last play through, just remember, you don't HAVE to have them work. You can go in and have them not show up until they're needed, or your coinage situation levels out.
As far as Reputation gain, invest in decorations and check for easy deliveries. If you fish all the time in the beginning like I do, getting some decorations from the Harbor should be pretty easy, but I recommend saving up for the big ticket items that you can set down on table. Deliveries seem to always spawn with one or two with something on the menu, or the capability to craft relatively easily for some extra Rep. Outside of that, I'd recommend just blitzing to copper decorative items, and not mess with too many iron items.
Rooms. Rooms are a major investment and require haggling without a Housekeeper, and you can start considering this late game. However, having occupied rooms is like having Patrons for far longer, who pay up front to stay, and pay for food and drink. Having a Housekeeper also means no running back and forth in a dead sprint so somebody lights the Fireplace because it's 1900 hours and you've been out fishing too long.
Once you have the income to really upgrade your employees, you can go a little ham, but the most tables I've ever ran was in the low 20s. This was with a maxed out speedy Waiter and four Magic Brooms IIRC. Until there are updates to the game, I'd consider anything over 30 large tables a little insane and unnecessary.
Lastly, don't sleep on your own perks. There are quite a few that can either cut costs, speed you up, or make better use of your time. 'Tip' and 'All Apart of the Service' increase general coinage gain with others being tailored to specific items, 'Good Working Environment' reduces Staff Cost, 'Good Management' is probably the absolutely must have for bumping your output making things. 'Manual Labor' is ideal to take early on as building costs pile up quickly. 'Green Thumb' and 'Mother Plant' can just about give you an infinite supply of grapes (well, really any re-harvestable), which means you don't have to re-buy as many seeds, and gives you more plant for your plant. 'Light Feet' will have you zipping across the map in no time. Just to mention a few. I almost always take 'Light Feet I&II' as quickly as possible. A lot of this game is running from A to B.
I hope this helps! Good luck with your Tavern!
2. Not everything is worth making. Pay attention to the sell value of all your food and drinks. If you feed patrons nothing but porridge, you're not going to make money. Go unlock better recipes in the mountain cave.
3. Optimize your arrangements. Place your tables closer together. Patrons can path to any seat they can touch and the waiter can clean and serve from one side of the table.
4. Decorate. Patrons will be less likely to cause problems if there is enough lighting and decorations. And if they do, make sure your bouncer has a skill that increases the chance of calming down the angry customer.
5. Valuable Employee skills. Skills have synergy. A skill that increases the speed at which people eat pairs well with a different employee's skill that increases reputation of max customers. Skills that increase cleaning time's are rather useless when you can have an unlimited amount of magic brooms in your tavern.
Do this and you too can have a weekly profit margin of 100+ gold at rank 30.
The way I look at my menu is can I make half the money my barkeep or waiter are paid per hour off one sell(half because a customer will usually spend at least an hour without ordering anything so 56 customers an hour is my "wishful" profit margin)? If yes, how much time will it take to make that recipe? Is it something that requires expensive ingredients to be processed multiple times as that saves me money, but costs more time? I can buy duplicate crafting stations to save time if I need to process a lot. Storing stations you don't need helps too as you can throw down a bunch of the same station and spam out specific processed ingredients quickly. If it needs meat or fish, how often can I get these ingredients and can I buy them if needed? Can I use one type of meat for just this recipe and build up a stockpile of the dish? Diversifying the menu with multiple things saves you from draining specific resources quickly so having 8 or 10 recipes and then getting 2 full stacks in there will give you a lot of wiggle room. Chicken is generally sold in larger quantities than other meats so getting it for 1 or 2 dishes is a good idea for bulking out the menu. Turkey is sold commonly too and you can get some while foraging occasionally while being slightly better than chicken. Lamb and beef are not always sold so save those for your better dishes and things that can be made using processed ingredients.
I tend to run the bar when I'm at the tavern so I can assist the waiter with cleaning so I only run with a waiter and housekeeper. It's a bit more difficult, but at 10 tables is just barely doable with a decent waiter if you're unlucky with hire rng like I was. I use the barkeep when I need to step outside or to the back regularly for crafts. The bouncer I use only when I go to forage or buy ingredients. Running them all full time just kills your income so use them when you have important things to do or want to relax. Upgrading the skills on an employee is also not a good idea if you don't need more. Try to keep them just good enough to handle the workload, but not so good they stand around for their shift. The bouncer and housekeeper cost the most in terms of wages so keeping the bouncer out most days is vital for good profits. He's 2-3 times more expensive than a decent waiter usually since I run him with all things checked.
I run a broom per table, 2 at the entrance, and then 2 upstairs in the hallway. It's definitely overkill, but I don't want anyone sweeping where brooms work if I can help it. They only cost floor space and you have quite a bit of that since plants and statues are best left around the edges of the tavern where nobody needs to walk.
Forage 1 or 2 times a week. Get iron and coal nodes that are easy to get on your route. Don't go up into the mountains for the extra nodes and just get the one at the first layer up since mushrooms and aromatics can spawn there. I suggest Monday and Sunday, but I only go once a week and just hit the shops regularly while grabbing the foraged stuff I see on my way to the farm(Whatever her name is) and bob. Supplement this with shopping and hit all the iron, copper, and coal nodes (Stone if you make stuff with it) and full grown trees around your tavern daily. This generally takes you till 9 or 10am. I believe shops update Monday and Friday, but I could be wrong. Fishing is all rng so don't expect good fish all the time. I tried to limit my fish recipes to 1 type because of this, but I also didn't fish much. Craft buckets till you get a full stack so you can always have a ton of water on hand for recipes. As you do your morning loop, refill the irrigation occasionally and your buckets.
Again, I'm not nearly as experience in this game as most of the people above me are and I only played 1 year, but this is how I turned a large enough profit to get all the crafting benches unlocked and have plenty of liquid cash floating.
60 plus leaving all at once maketh one very big mess...
Cheers..!