This game seems EXTREMELY luck-based

[ZomB Chkn]

I've been playing Binding of Isaac: WOTL out of the Indie Bundle, and I've noticed that this is extremely luck based, for example, I've been watching my friend play, and he always gets fantastic items, for example, Mitre, Scapular, Brimstone, etc. And he told me that Super Pride was incredibly hard and incredibly rare, he didn't get it until Ending 12.
Of course, I got him before I'd beaten mom, though, I beat him. Then, I found 3 different down pills in the next room, and got the Fallen.
This is how each adn every single one of my playthroughs has gone and I simply prefer a game with more per se, skill involved. I can understand that this game requires the skill to dodge and curve your attacks, but when so much of the game is affected by the items you get and the bosses you get, it just seems too luck-based for me.
Am I missing some gameplay mechanic that makes it not luck-based?

[Lock Down Leo]

Yes you are. There are many different ways to play. You don't have to rely on just the items you pick up. While you can be unlucky with the items you get but you can still get far even with bad items. I prefer to play as Cain have quite a few different strategies with him. There are also a lot of ways to exploit different areas as long as you know what to do.

[ZomB Chkn]

Thanks for the honest response! It just is extremely frustrating when you're having a great run and are plagued by bad rooms/pills.

[Lock Down Leo]

How much have you played? The more you know the easier it is. I used to read the wiki non stop when I was first playing. I'd stay away from pills if I were you. Don't use them unless you're desperate since they can hurt you a lot.
I'd also suggest not taking risks in general until you are completely comfortable with the game.

[Flopper Doodle]

This game has a really...long...learning curve I guess? There is a huge amount of time needed put into it to familiarize yourself with items, bosses, enemies, strategies, really just about everything. You just gradually get better, with or without relying on items. Sometimes, yes, you will get quite unlucky with room + enemy combinations. A lot of the time you won't get any sort of item you feel is useful. Something I recognized is for me, a lot of the fun of Isaac is that you will get better with more and more items the more you play. That you begin to consider more items as Good items because you've played enough to see their advantages in different situations. I swear this game pisses you off like no other the first maybe...15+ hours? Just gotta push through that learning curve, imo.

[Lock Down Leo]

I would suggest playing without WOTL if you can. It ramps up the difficulty. I remember when I first got it and it was like I had never played it before.

[NukeHP]

A lot of Isaac's difficulty is conceptual: there's so many items, room types, systems governing your chance for various things (devil rooms for instance), and so on that it takes a while to really become comfortable with them all. However, once you hit that point and know how to manipulate the system to work more in your favor, you'll find that you can make a lot more work for you than you could at the start. You can still have completely awful runs due to a bad draw, but they become far less common over time.

[Arsenic Candy!!!]

Have you ever heard the expression you make your own luck? I mean yeah, some runs you're just going to get crap every item you find, and some runs you'll find one or two great items and you can charge through anything, but a lot of the skill in this game comes in two forms: 1. clearing rooms without taking damage (dodging, angling shots like you said) 2. figuring out when to take smart gambles. If you're making analytical risk-based decisions you can turn runs around and come up with a few extra items. For me that's where a lot of the fun comes in.

There is certainly a luck component to this game, and it's larger than in many games, but there's still agency involved. (also when you make it really far in a run with awful items you feel really badass)

[Rusher]

This game is "random", which is a disgrace imho.

"you make your own luck"? My balls. You start and maybe you don't find any key on the firsts 3 floors whatever you do, making you skip 2 treasure rooms, shop and other.

Being random some runs will be easy and some will be just impossible.

[Arsenic Candy!!!]

Originally posted by void *pointer:

This game is "random", which is a disgrace imho.

"you make your own luck"? My balls. You start and maybe you don't find any key on the firsts 3 floors whatever you do, making you skip 2 treasure rooms, shop and other.

Being random some runs will be easy and some will be just impossible.

Like I said, sometimes you get screwed, sometimes you get OP, but most runs are somewhere in the middle where with some skill you can have some success.

One of my friends complains about how unlucky he is at this game and then I watch him play and truth is he's just not very good, even when he has average items. I'm not trying to talk crap, but honestly I think that's more the case than bad luck when people say they have bad luck a lot.

[kennyminot]

The game does involve some luck, but it's more important to know how to use the items. To give you an example, on almost *any* run, you're going to get an item that will totally change your gameplay, whether it be Dr. Fetus, technology, the spider shot, and so on. You need to learn how to adjust to these weapons. At this point, I almost always beat Mom regardless of my items, and I will *probably* make it to It Lives without much of a struggle. So, obviously, while there is some luck in the game, a considerable amount of skill is necessary to adjust your play to the random items. (Just to give you an idea, I don't necessarily jump for joy if I get the Scapular; I'd much rather just have another heart.)

Or, to put this another way, this diagram more eloquently demonstrates my point:

http://funnytweetpics.com/photos/view/reasons_for_death_in_call_of_duty_httptcowfay0uh9

[kennyminot]

Just to make sure I make my point, I certainly have moments when I curse my luck. I absolutely despise getting pagent boy (although, it's worth noting, even getting a few coins can be useful, especially if it enables you to get something really good from bum friend).

[Rusher]

I just started a run on Cellar XL, got epic items from both treasures and the bosses, got a teleport pill, used it and ended on the ERROR room, where I bought the "Forget me Now" item for 7 coins. I used the item and started the Cellar room XL again, with all my awesome items and getting 2 more treasure rooms and 2 more items rooms, also lucky on the secret room and luckily discovering super secret room. All that one without leaving the Cellar (which I did with all the 2 row of hears full with 6 reds, an eternal one and the rest blues).

Obviously that run is going to defeat the Cathedral/Chest if you've them unlocked, otherwise you suck, but getting to that point, was extremely lucky and I even feel unfair lol..

More than the "learning cuve" (which is important also), you need a lot of luck in the run.

[~Tildes~]

The one thing about this game that people tend to miss when complaining about this game is that it's supposed to have Roguelike parts to it, which also contain many luck-based components.
Also, as the above posters have said, you need to gat past the learning curve, which mostly contains learning boss patterns, curving & dodging, learning which items are useful and in what situations, etc. Afterwards, the first four floors are a breeze, and it's only in the Womb and below where you can get screwed due to luck.

[Capnmaf]

Originally posted by void *pointer:

This game is "random", which is a disgrace imho.

"you make your own luck"? My balls. You start and maybe you don't find any key on the firsts 3 floors whatever you do, making you skip 2 treasure rooms, shop and other.

Being random some runs will be easy and some will be just impossible.

On the contrary, the randomness is what makes me coming back to it, even after 150 hours spent.

But yes, making your own luck is a valid way to put it. The game loves to put down the risk/reward scenario. You could rely just on items, or you could go around risking what little items you have or even your own health. Decided to spend all your money in a slot machine/fortune teller...BOOM dollar bill/crystal ball. Went into a spiky door room...BOOM devil room item. Every room you go into is obviously having dice rolled each time, so I do not deny it's luck based. But it's not like in order to beat the game, you need to luck out and get Epic Fetus every run, you can do it with average items as well.

[Rusher]

I just started a run with Samson. Got a bomb, and EPIC FETUS inside the first secret room on Cellar 1. The result of the run was obvious: very easy win.

I did a second run later: I found 0 bombs in the first 4 floors, and I found like 1-2 blue rocks per floor <--- epic bad luck made me get a very sucky rstart.

But later, I got Polyphemus + Brimstone for 1heart on devil room after re-rolling... then very easy win also.

Luck is too much % on this game. The game should assure you the basics (few bombs and keys so you can actualy play and take decisions)