Crafting

[Gummiel]

So currently the crafting system seems kinda useless, by the time you can craft any item, you are already rolling in those items from normal drops, there are VERY few cases where you really get anything useful out of it

So if the final system is at least gonna be built on what we already have, the very least for it to be useful imo, would be some other/better way of unlocking things, (or just at least allow us to unlock any item in each category in any order we wish really, so if I want a Thermo gun as my first unlock I should be allowed to, instead of having to go through 3-4 or whatever it is currently other unlocks first).

Additionally the ability to upgrade rarity specific components, (even if it is something like 20 blue for one red etc.). Also allow us to use the crafting XP on a higher rarity item as well (Of cause using a higher amount than if used on its natural tier). This is really one of the big reasons why the crafting system is of so little use. By the time you actually get enough xp and mats to craft a specific rarity of weapons, you have to already be swimming in that rarity of loot, or you would be using most of those things instead of salvaging them.

Also let us upgrade more than once. I understand not wanting infinite amount of upgrades, but one upgrade rarely if ever actually make an noticeable difference (and will probably be even less so once we get the full 30 lvl's at full release), so maybe up to 3-4 upgrades per items or something like that (then you still have to decide how many of those you want to spend on lvl upgrades, rarity upgrades, and lower level usage upgrades). Or alternatively could make it infinite but maybe more expensive (potentially exponentially more expensive even) for each additional upgrade, that way while you could in theory get a lvl 1 common to a lvl 30 superior, it would not actually be practical due to the sheer amount of resources it would take for that.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:

So currently the crafting system seems kinda useless, by the time you can craft any item, you are already rolling in those items from normal drops, there are VERY few cases where you really get anything useful out of it

I'm not sure what people are doing wrong, but I couldn't disagree more. I'm crafting upgrades left and right. Essentially every time I level up, I craft new gear at that level that is as good if not better then what I'm using. Now granted that as good as is not an upgrade, but every single thing you craft is not going to be an upgrade you might have to craft 2 of an item to get an upgrade.

The only thing I can think of that I'm doing differently is perhaps I'm more willing to use a common level 15 weapon over an uncommon level 13 weapon for example. Maybe everyone expects that if they have an uncommon item equipped that only another uncommon item or better quality can replace it. That's just not true. Generally speaking an item that's 2 levels above and 1 quality level below is gonna be about a push at the very least. Might be an upgrade, might not be. 3 levels above and 1 quality level below, definite upgrade from my experience and that happens ALL THE TIME.

{edit} So I decided to create a guide to crafting. Try using this from level 1 and see if you change your mind about whether crafting is useful or not. You have to use it for it to be useful.

At level 1 don't sell any common items that you aren't using, just hold onto them. As soon as you can, purchase a cargo unit, doesn't matter the stats just any level 1 common cargo unit. Once you equip a cargo unit you are able to dismantle and craft items.

Once you have a cargo unit now dismantle all of the common items that you aren't using. You will get 10 crafting XP and 1 crafting material of each type for each item you dismantle. It takes 70 crafting XP to unlock a blueprint. Don't bother with Primary or Secondary weapons at this point, start with the modules. The reason for that is it's easier to find primary and secondary weapon upgrades then it is the modules because any primary or secondary weapon that drops can replace any primary or secondary weapon. You can only replace modules of the same type and you probably won't find an upgrade of each module type which makes modules better candidates for crafting than primary or secondary weapons.

The first common module blueprint you can unlock is the energy core. Do this as soon as you have 70 crafting XP, you'll probably have enough before you reach level 3. Once you have unlocked the blueprint for common energy cores, the blueprints for common Shield and common Plating will become available to unlock. Continue to dismantle items for the crafting XP and crafting materials.

Around this time you should hit level 3. Now look at your modules and see if you have any level 1 common modules. If you do and you can craft that module type then craft a level 3 common module of that type. This will be an upgrade to what you are currently using so swap it out for what you have equipped and dismantle what you had equipped. Continue to do this with each module type that is level 1 and you can craft that module type. You may have only unlocked the blueprint for energy cores at this point so it may be the only module you can do. If you have a level 1 module but you can't craft that module type because you haven't unlocked the blueprint yet you can try using the improvise for common modules which will craft a random level 3 common module. You might get lucky and it will be one of the modules that is level 1 or even level 2 and you can also upgrade that and replace it and dismantle what you had equipped. If you don't have any level 1 common modules then just wait till you hit level 4 and look for modules that are level 2 to replace at that point.

Repeat the above steps every time you level up, always replacing common modules that are at least 2 levels below your current level as one level below probably won't be enough of an upgrade to bother with. Remember that you always craft items at your level so it's best to do it as soon as you hit a new level since you most likely will not have found any items of that level yet although it is possible. Continue to unlock new module blueprints until you have unlocked all of them. Once you have unlocked all the common modules then you can start unlocking Primary and Secondary weapon common blueprints as you see fit. Remember that you can always use the improvise to get a random Primary or Secondary weapon before you have unlocked the blueprints if you have the mats.

Once you start getting uncommon items to drop, follow the same process for uncommon crafting modules. The rule of thumb that I use is I try to craft at the same rarity if possible and 2 levels above the item I'm replacing. For example I'll replace any common level 1 item with a crafted level 3 common item. If I can't do that then I may try crafting 1 rarity level down and at least 2 levels above the item I'm going to replace. For example if I have a level 1 uncommon item and I can't replace it with an uncommon crafted item but I can craft a level 4 common item I'll do that. A level 3 common item might still be an upgrade over a level 1 uncommon item so that's also a possibility if I'm feeling lucky and I have plenty of mats, but typically I won't do that.

It's important to realize that anytime you craft an item you are either going to replace and dismantle an item or just dismantle the item you crafted if it's not an upgrade, but even that's not a waste because you get crafting XP and crafting mats every time you dismantle something even if you just crafted it. The more you craft the more blueprints you will unlock and the more you will be able to craft. You have to use crafting for it to be worth it. If you only craft sparingly then you will NEVER be able to craft upgrades because you won't have enough crafting XP or crafting materials. If you follow the above process EVERY time you level up crafting will be useful.

[Gummiel]

Originally posted by Pappy:

Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:

So currently the crafting system seems kinda useless, by the time you can craft any item, you are already rolling in those items from normal drops, there are VERY few cases where you really get anything useful out of it

I'm not sure what people are doing wrong, but I couldn't disagree more. I'm crafting upgrades left and right practically constantly. Essentially every time I level up, I craft new gear at that level that is as good if not better then what I'm using. Now granted that as good as is not an upgrade, but every single thing you craft is not going to be an upgrade you might have to craft 2 of an item to get an upgrade.

The only thing I can think of that I'm doing differently is perhaps I'm more willing to use a common level 15 weapon over an uncommon level 13 weapon for example. Maybe everyone expects that if they have an uncommon item equipped that only another uncommon item or better quality can replace it. That's just not true. Generally speaking an item that's 2 levels above and 1 quality level below is gonna be about a push at the very least. Might be an upgrade, might not be. 3 levels above and 1 quality level below, definite upgrade from my experience and that happens ALL THE TIME.

3 level up and 1 quality down is at best really a very minor upgrade, at worst a plain downgrade, depending on what kind of gear and what mods are on it, so yeah you may do it "all the time" but are you really getting anything signifcant out of it?, most likely not, and you will also be scrapping that item again in ½hour or so probably, maybe even less depending on your luck with the drops. and really by the time you got all the unlocks in a rarity in the first place you aren't really talking one rarity down from what you are getting as drops, but most likely two for most of your items, most of the times, and then it really starts to get dodgy, and almost guaranteed that what you craft is a downgrade

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Enso Gummiel:

3 level up and 1 quality down is at best really a very minor upgrade, at worst a plain downgrade, depending on what kind of gear and what mods are on it, so yeah you may do it "all the time" but are you really getting anything signifcant out of it?, most likely not, and you will also be scrapping that item again in ½hour or so probably, maybe even less depending on your luck with the drops. and really by the time you got all the unlocks in a rarity in the first place you aren't really talking one rarity down from what you are getting as drops, but most likely two for most of your items, most of the times, and then it really starts to get dodgy, and almost guaranteed that what you craft is a downgrade

Well that's just how you start out, before long you'll be able to craft items that are 2 levels above the item you are replacing with items of the same rarity and that WILL be an upgrade. Heck I have crafted items of the same rarity that have been 3 or more levels above the item I'm replacing.

Currently once superior items start dropping you are getting pretty close to the max level of 15 and it gets very tough to craft superior items that are higher level than what you can find but that's only because of the temporary max level of 15. Once that's raised to the real max whatever that is then it will be possible to craft superior items 2 levels above what you have found. It won't always happen, but it will be possible and that's what crafting is there for, to fill in the gaps of things that you can't seem to find. Crafting won't replace finding gear, it's a supplement to finding gear and in that capacity it is quite useful.

[Wumpus]

I like the idea above of being able to craft better components out of lesser components. I'm also a little disappointed that you can only modify once. When I get a favorite item with all the right attributes I'd like to keep it around more for than a level or two. Also, if a craft a Green item and I'm like that 's an awesome item, I can't make it Blue. So what happens is that I just wait to find items and don't craft. It's easier to find a great item than to roll the dice than craft something meh.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Wumpus:

So what happens is that I just wait to find items and don't craft. It's easier to find a great item than to roll the dice than craft something meh.

If you don't want to craft items then don't, but don't pretend that crafting isn't useful. You're asking them to make crafting too good which would make drops worthless which is not a good idea. It's fine the way it is as a supplement to drops not a replacement for it.

[Wumpus]

Originally posted by pappy:

If you don't want to craft items then don't, but don't pretend that crafting isn't useful. You're asking them to make crafting too good which would make drops worthless which is not a good idea. It's fine the way it is as a supplement to drops not a replacement for it.

I'm not saying it's not useful. I've unlocked all the grey, green, blue and all red primary weapons. I've crafted 10's of red weapons. I'm saying, crafting being a one time thing per item limits it's usefulness. If you could craft and then modify rarity or level a couple of times, that would make it more useful. I'm not saying it should be unlimited, but if a craft a blue weapon and want to make it red, I can't. If I craft a red and want to level it up, I can't. I believe that the balance is off. It's easier to find the awesome weapons than to craft them.

Here's a couple of other examples. I want a red rapid fire scatter gun. Chances of crafting one, don't know, never happened. I have found 2 of them. I want a starforged coil gun. Chances of crafting, don't know never happened. Found 4-5 of those. Maybe you can't craft extra special red items?

Now I'm just deconstructing red items so when the next content patch comes I can upgrade awesome blue items I find into reds ones. If that's the intent of crafting, ok. I'm not complaining. Love the game. Just saying, where I'm at, that's what crafting has become, saving components to upgrade blue to red and maybe green to blue if I'm not finding blues.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Wumpus:

I'm not saying it's not useful. I've unlocked all the grey, green, blue and all red primary weapons. I've crafted 10's of red weapons. I'm saying, crafting being a one time thing per item limits it's usefulness.

If it wasn't limited it would negate the whole point of a looter/shooter. Also note that I said that crafting weapons is less useful then crafting modules because it's easier to find upgrades on weapons then it is to find upgrades on modules.

Originally posted by Wumpus:

If you could craft and then modify rarity or level a couple of times, that would make it more useful.

Yes and at some point it becomes TOO useful and negates the need to continually look for and find new equipment which is what a looter/shooter is all about. We can quibble about whether that number should be 1 or 2 or 3 upgrades, but it NEEDS to be limited. The developers have chosen 1 upgrade which I think is a fair number, more than that gets away from the looter/shooter design.

Originally posted by Wumpus:

I'm not saying it should be unlimited, but if a craft a blue weapon and want to make it red, I can't. If I craft a red and want to level it up, I can't.

Yes you can. 1 time.

Originally posted by Wumpus:

I believe that the balance is off. It's easier to find the awesome weapons than to craft them.

No, it's not. It's the same. You find upgrades all the time and you can also craft upgrades all the time if you invest in crafting from the beginning. I've done it. Multiple times in fact. Perhaps you aren't seeing it because you're not using it enough because you have already made up your mind? That's fine, I'm not saying you should craft more, I'm simply telling you that crafting is useful for those that use it.

[Pan Darius Cassandra]

The crafting system discourages the player from using it.