Female characters very unlikeable

[V-K ◉_◉]

It seems like every woman in this game is bossy and arrogant. Don't know whats up with the writing here.

[Giraffasaur]

Before this thread goes in any weird directions (because we've seen this before), I'm jumping in here. It seems the two popular opinions that have been said in the past are either:

A. We're conservative fools who make men dominant because women are icky creatures who are dumb
B. We're liberal fools who make women dominant because men are icky creatures who are dumb

The fact of the matter is: We made characters have interesting traits, unique histories, and particular goals/desires. Their dialogue reflects that for the most part, and we're happy with how they have all come together.

We form opinions of the people we meet in the real world, and the same happens with characters in games. You're welcome to form your opinions of the characters in the game of course. Please keep in mind they are just that: Opinions.

Feel free to discuss the topic, let's just try to keep things respectful. Thanks.

[lynchie72]

Can't really comment on this game. Have only just encountered Delia and so I'll reserve judgement.

This is not a new thing though. It's been common since at least the 1980's (in film and TV) to establish a strong female character by her immediately putting men in their place by making them look foolish with sarcastic verbal put-downs. It's a similar trope to the "silly husband" vs "competent wife" in countless TV and Radio advertisements.

There's a definite double standard in media where women say stuff to men that would sound quite bad if it was from a man to a woman.

I think it's lazy writing and self defeating (again, I'm not commentating on this game). It unfortunately has the opposite of the intended effect where the female character lacks personality, flaws and like-ability as well as a sense of progression. If they are a supporting character they exist just to tick a box. If a main character they are a charmless power fantasy.

My favourite films are Aliens and The Terminator. So I'm not adverse to strong female leads. Just badly written characters.

[Notoshy]

Originally posted by V-K ◉_◉:

It seems like every woman in this game is bossy and arrogant. Don't know whats up with the writing here.

You will have to give examples for this supposed behaviour.
From my Viewpoint, they have a fitting Character for their Roles. May it Delia the Doctor, who got transfered into the DMZ against her Will and is understandably really pissed because of this. Or Commissioner Hawke, the Captain of a Federation Cruiser, who has to have a dominant Personality as Leader of a Warship.

You really have to tell us, which female Character is not to your liking and why.

[Pappy]

I'm not sure where this is coming from. I don't think the women in this game are much different from the men. Is Khala or Delia even close to being the arrogant ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that Maddocks is? I don't think so.

Everyone in the game has their own agenda and a pretty forceful way of trying to get what the want. That makes sense given the circumstances they are all in. There aren't any suzy homemakers here. There aren't any Homer Simpsons. They are all trying to somehow eek out an existence in this war torn universe. It's a harsh place and it calls for harsh people. The meek get swallowed up and spit out. The meekest character in the game Eduardo is a robot and look how he's taken advantage of by a couple of men.

This seems to be coming from the perspective that women shouldn't be arrogant and demanding, but it's ok for a man. I think that's a rather out dated notion.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[V-K ◉_◉]

Let me first of all say that this is not a bad game, it is very good and I think most of the figures in the story are decently amusing.


The point is that like many studios, the women are written as if they are men.
Womens' lives are very different from mens' lives. Most women irl do not act like men.

Yet this game is another example where women are basically bossy, sarcastic and in general not nice to the other characters. However it's even worse than if those characters were male because at least then the other characters can talk back. But because they are women, they cannot be criticized or put down, they must be uplifted.

You can see this also with the main protagonist. Every major interaction he has with women is basically them commanding him around and not even giving him any answers or reasons. And he just submits to them without any challenge. Even when he does some task for them, they don't even say thank you. This was honestly annoying to me, a lot of times I was wondering why he has to put up with this.

There is a difference between being polite and straight up having no self respect and just acting like a servant.

[mcb0ny]

Woke BS that we are being force-fed for the past few years by many companies is irritating, sure, but this game is not it.

My guess is that you are just overly sensitive to this but given the fact that so many good franchises are already destroyed by "The Message" i don't blame you ;]

[Laserak]

Originally posted by mcb0ny:

Woke BS that we are being force-fed for the past few years by many companies is irritating, sure, but this game is not it.

My guess is that you are just overly sensitive to this but given the fact that so many good franchises are already destroyed by "The Message" i don't blame you ;]

This pretty much sums it up.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by V-K ◉_◉:

The point is that like many studios, the women are written as if they are men.
Womens' lives are very different from mens' lives. Most women irl do not act like men.

I think you are over generalizing here. Women in the same circumstances as men do very much act just like men. It's only because women and men traditionally haven't always been thought of as equals is why they have behaved differently in many cases. Social norms are different for men and women, but take that away and men and women aren't really as much different as you imagine. Well that's what has happened here. These people are all in the same situation for the most part. They are all on equal ground for the most part. Just because you are woman doesn't mean you can't be the leader of an entire fleet of men.

The problem isn't the devs way of portraying women and men here, it's your stereotyping of men and women that is the problem. Sure men and women have differences no one is suggesting otherwise, but to assume that women can't be equally arrogant and bossy as their men counterparts when put into the same situations is a problem especially when you characterize that behavior as unlikeable for a woman, but not necessarily for a man.

Take your observation about women's interaction with Adam. Remember when Adam brings Dax's body back to the station after being killed? Adam orders Delia to do an autopsy. After it's done and they discover the chip in Dax's shoulder Adam matter of factly states he needs to get to other half of the chip and Delia asks "is that it?". Adam is confused and asks what she means. Delia asks if he's not going to bury Dax and Adam concedes that's he's being insensitive and realizes he's lost a friend. This is a case of Adam being too arrogant and Delia having to correct him on his behavior. I'm sure you probably didn't think anything of this interaction because it matches up with your preconceived notions of how men and women react to the same situation, but actually it underlines the fact that it can go either way and it's only when it doesn't go the way you expect that you have an issue with it.

Another example is the woman who sends Adam on the quest to return their lost shipment. She's downright pleasant and humorous. And what about the captain of the Flying Duchess whose name escapes me at the moment, she seems like a very nice person. There's all kinds of women here, I think you just want them all to be like these women.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[Notoshy]

Originally posted by V-K ◉_◉:

You can see this also with the main protagonist. Every major interaction he has with women is basically them commanding him around and not even giving him any answers or reasons. And he just submits to them without any challenge. Even when he does some task for them, they don't even say thank you. This was honestly annoying to me, a lot of times I was wondering why he has to put up with this.

Im still not seeing any Examples, my Friend. If something annoys you so much, that you feel the Urge to make a Thread, i would expect some Examples, Quotes, etc.

Komm schon.... was genau stört dich, V-K

[Beta_Krogoth]

Nah. I think you're being overly sensitive. I'm hyper aware of woke-style modern writing and this game hasn't triggered my indication once. The characters make sense for the setting and their position, female or male.

Not having a go at you, its easy to get locked into political mindsets, self-awareness is increasingly difficult these days.

[Vin Carver]

Both women and men NPCs are very dominant. The problem is the main character is too submissive. Everyone walks all over him

[fishle]

Writing in this game is just terrible, barely worth any discussion let alone trying to analyze why

[Mr. Sneed Elwoods]

Its just a Game, for Kids, played by Adults who dont get what they are out for, with subliminal education which fails beeing written in naiv conflicting form.
In short....

Dont expect too much getting your build worldly Ego confirmed.

[V-K ◉_◉]

Originally posted by Notoshy:

Originally posted by V-K ◉_◉:

You can see this also with the main protagonist. Every major interaction he has with women is basically them commanding him around and not even giving him any answers or reasons. And he just submits to them without any challenge. Even when he does some task for them, they don't even say thank you. This was honestly annoying to me, a lot of times I was wondering why he has to put up with this.

Im still not seeing any Examples, my Friend. If something annoys you so much, that you feel the Urge to make a Thread, i would expect some Examples, Quotes, etc.

Komm schon.... was genau stört dich, V-K

Pretty much any major female character that gives you quests, including Dela or whatever her name is. She is one of the most obnoxious companions I have ever seen in a game, she just demands demands demands and never says thank you or gives you anything. I don't get why they can't just kick her into space

[Notoshy]

Originally posted by V-K ◉_◉:

Originally posted by Notoshy:

Im still not seeing any Examples, my Friend. If something annoys you so much, that you feel the Urge to make a Thread, i would expect some Examples, Quotes, etc.

Komm schon.... was genau stört dich, V-K

Pretty much any major female character that gives you quests, including Dela or whatever her name is. She is one of the most obnoxious companions I have ever seen in a game, she just demands demands demands and never says thank you or gives you anything. I don't get why they can't just kick her into space

i assume you didnt finished her Sidequest yet?^^ Because she thanks us and is a supportive Person.
"never gives you anything"? You mean beside her useful Companion Perks?