My experience on level scaling/crafting with the Spring/Stinger update.

[Johnny Hazard]

Hello fellow pilots.
Here's what I think of the current state of the game, after playing the new Spring/Stinger update, in what regards level scaling and crafting.
First, I was never a great lover of scaling enemies to player level. Hated that in Skyrim, in Witcher 3, and so many other games that use it.
Despite that, I tried to embrace the play style in ES2. Well, it still feels very odd. Started a new game, I'm level 15 now, still in Ceto, doing whatever I like, BUT the main quest. Why?
Now this is the weird part:
Seeing that enemies scale to my level has imprinted a feeling inside me, that all of the game doesn't matter, until I reach the end-game level cap. Because it's in that moment that I really start to drift away from enemies in case of power and performance.
So I play how I want, doing jobs, random locations, mystery locations, etc...
I use the crafting system to adjust my gear whenever I level up, and keep it at that- low profile- never spending too much of green, blue and red resources, just the necessary to defeat incoming enemies. That means usually some weapons, destabilizer missiles and rockets.
I keep it low profile and low cost, because until I reach the level cap and get the best gear, there's no reason to spend blue or red resources on items that will become obsolete on level up.
And there you have it- level scaling is killing my sense of progression, and the restricted crafting doesn't help.

Solutions:

1- level cap every system. Make Ceto and other systems have a set level, have sub-quests and main missions have a level set also, and make high-risk areas looted adapt to player's level. This way, players wouldn't have a big reason to stay in Ceto after level 6, unless they wanted to grind for high-risk areas, since these could appear in loot.
This system will encourage the player to move into more dangerous areas.
Reduce XP given by missions and enemies, if their level is too high/low than the player. (this will encourage the player to look for areas that match his level)

2-allow unlimited crafting. If a player finds a nice module, let him raise the level/rarity along the way.
Also, currently, catalysts can only be applied on "blank" looted gear. No crafted or already modified gear allowed. This makes catalysts only a valid option for end-game, again.
Drop the limits. Let players use catalysts at will, and any modifications they want.
Limit the options by making rare catalysts and rare modified weapons spawn only on end-game areas.

Done. What are your ideas on the new update?

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

First, I was never a great lover of scaling enemies to player level. Hated that in Skyrim, in Witcher 3, and so many other games that use it. Despite that, I tried to embrace the play style in ES2. Well, it still feels very odd. Started a new game, I'm level 15 now, still in Ceto, doing whatever I like, BUT the main quest. Why?

Why not? Do what you want. That's the whole point. You can stay in Ceto if you want, you don't HAVE to do the campaign if you don't want. This is AWESOME!!!!

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

Now this is the weird part: Seeing that enemies scale to my level has imprinted a feeling inside me, that all of the game doesn't matter, until I reach the end-game level cap. Because it's in that moment that I really start to drift away from enemies in case of power and performance. So I play how I want, doing jobs, random locations, mystery locations, etc...

Nothing weird about this at all other than maybe you just haven't been given the opportunity to do this before in a game so it's a bit strange to you, but once you get over the feeling of strangeness you realize how beautiful it is. Rockfish is not dictating how you play the game, they are allowing you to play how you want to play. Again, this is AWESOME!!!!

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

I use the crafting system to adjust my gear whenever I level up, and keep it at that- low profile- never spending too much of green, blue and red resources, just the necessary to defeat incoming enemies. That means usually some weapons, destabilizer missiles and rockets. I keep it low profile and low cost, because until I reach the level cap and get the best gear, there's no reason to spend blue or red resources on items that will become obsolete on level up.

You're right there's no reason to spend blue or red resources if you don't want, but here's the thing, there's no real reason NOT to spend them either. It's not like you don't have enough. I have lots of them. Enough to craft a dozen blue items. Why wait till I hit max level to start spending them? This is only true right now because the cap is set at level 22 which is within your reach pretty quickly. What about when they raise the cap to say...30? Will you still feel the need to wait to spend those blue crafting materials then? Gonna be waiting a long while for that. What are you waiting for? It's not like you're going to run out of materials because what people fail to realize is that EVERY time you craft a blue item, guess what you now have another blue item to disassemble at some point. Yep. I said it, crafting blue items creates blue crafting materials, so you're not going to run out, you're just going to get more and more as time goes on. Do me a favor and go look at your common crafting materials. How many you got? If you disassemble every common item you get like I do you have enough to craft hundreds of common items. Now go look at your uncommon crafting materials. Getting that way too right? What do you think is going to happen to those blue crafting materials the higher you go, yep same thing. Red crafting materials, yep eventually gonna be like that too.

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

And there you have it- level scaling is killing my sense of progression, and the restricted crafting doesn't help.

That's only because you're looking at it all wrong. You're letting your sense of progression be tied into making into the end game rather than it being tied into your actual ship progression. Is your ship progressing? Sure it is. It's WAY better than it was a few levels ago. Who cares that you're still in Ceto, you're still doing things that you want to do right? If not you wouldn't still be in Ceto, right? So forget that you're in Ceto and just enjoy it. You'll get to that end game at some point, when you are ready why rush it?

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

Solutions:

No game solutions needed because the problem is in your head, not in the game.

[Yes Indeed!]

Soft-capping the systems is already planned. Early-game systems will tend to generate enemies several levels beneath your own, just not strictly level 1 (so you don't destroy 200 tonnes of steel with a sneeze).

Balancing unlimited catalysation would require drastically ramping up enemy difficulty in anticipation that all players will fly mostly/completely optimized ships. Allowing unlimited crafting guts any sense of fortune with lucky rolls or accomplishment with expensive gear.

It sounds like you might enjoy the game using a savefile editor or trainer. I haven't looked into those but perhaps it's an avenue worth investigating.

[Andrew]

Currently, there is no end game yet. And Red, Blue and Green materials are not that hard to find. Everywhere I turn, I am finding High Risk Areas and often I'll get another high risk location from the current high risk.

I use "powerful" Gauss and "marksman" Rail Gun. and "powerful" homing missiles x3. Rail gun is easy... I just look for a grey one that is my level or 1 lower and modify it and put a marksman on it. The other 4 items I look for grey or green powerful then modify them.

If you go this route, be sure to use the preview option so that you get what you like. Also, using this method will save you a lot of materials but it will cost you credits but that is what the jobs are for.

I have 2 main gripes about the game. When you reach level cap, but still have story to do, you lose the exp from the mission rather than holding the missions for you claim the exp later.

And secondly, everything that you do causes you to aileron roll and I am always forced to counter roll or else get lost in vertigo. Especially in caves.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1859431931582750447/00E0F7DCC1D97A5D0F8E805E548209B74FF24859/

[Johnny Hazard]

Originally posted by Andrew:

And secondly, everything that you do causes you to aileron roll and I am always forced to counter roll or else get lost in vertigo. Especially in caves.

This. Seems a tiny issue, but it would be really pleasing if the ship after a left/right turn, corrected the roll to previous alignment.

[ATCbazzer]

I'd rather the rolling when turning was a menu toggle. I've found myself using the 1st person no cockpit view more because it doesn't roll when turning.

This is from the point of view of a controller player, where rolling just isn't convenient.

[Holy Athena]

I agree with the OP. level scaling is just a lazy function designed by game developers to make the world feel stagnant, and remove the time required to balance things.

Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't actually add anything of value to games, but takes away from it. (In most cases).

Arguably Skyrim where the world should feel somewhat the same, but you're still getting more powerful is done just about as perfectly as level scaling could be.

But the argument then is.. why not just keep everything the same power? Literally.. Then throw in some more powerful weapons and you literally have the same feeling and outcome.

Games with "level scaling" and upgrades, are literally just smoke and mirrors to make you think you're doing anything of value, when you're not. Literally.

---------------

I'd rather have a game where some areas are harder, or easier based on my level, skills, equipment, etc, than just always being this stagnant "same power" even though I'm upgrading things.

Again it's just giving a false impression that your upgrades actually did something, when they didn't. The game just just dynamically matched it. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Ubik Valis]

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

1- level cap every system. Make Ceto and other systems have a set level, have sub-quests and main missions have a level set also, and make high-risk areas looted adapt to player's level. This way, players wouldn't have a big reason to stay in Ceto after level 6, unless they wanted to grind for high-risk areas, since these could appear in loot.
This system will encourage the player to move into more dangerous areas.
Reduce XP given by missions and enemies, if their level is too high/low than the player. (this will encourage the player to look for areas that match his level)

I'm pretty sure I heard Erik Schrader confirm something to that effect in one of the dev streams not too long ago.

And I've definitely felt a difference in levels with the high-risk areas. A green Ceto high risk was like a relaxing breeze compared to a blue one in Khait Nebula...

[Johnny Hazard]

Originally posted by Ubik Valis:

And I've definitely felt a difference in levels with the high-risk areas. A green Ceto high risk was like a relaxing breeze compared to a blue one in Khait Nebula...

Level 19, in the Union system. The toughest place I found yet, was an unknown random location, with an outlaw base, 5 sniper drones and 2 armor ones. I HAD to back-off, and use a sniper gun. Only time I couldn't jump in and bump heads. Sniper drones are fast now.

Note: I reloaded that save and tried another approach. XD
Energized boost into the outlaw base, hide inside the hangar, and use devices to Fark up everything. Wooot!

[Ubik Valis]

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

Level 19, in the Union system. The toughest place I found yet, was an unknown random location, with an outlaw base, 5 sniper drones and 2 armor ones. I HAD to back-off, and use a sniper gun. Only time I couldn't jump in and bump heads. Sniper drones are fast now.

Sounds like you're using some slower-than-a-turtle Gunship...my knack for Sentinels, or current Vanguard can't relate.

Originally posted by Johnny Hazard:

Note: I reloaded that save and tried another approach. XD
Energized boost into the outlaw base, hide inside the hangar, and use devices to Fark up everything. Wooot!

Yeah, I used to be hardcore on Boost and Teleport even back in Everspace 1, but lately I've been playing around with the EMP, just flying straight into high risk mobs and going ZAP! Great fun, makes me more hyped for the full release.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

I agree with the OP. level scaling is just a lazy function designed by game developers to make the world feel stagnant, and remove the time required to balance things.

Nothing more, nothing less. It doesn't actually add anything of value to games, but takes away from it. (In most cases).

Arguably Skyrim where the world should feel somewhat the same, but you're still getting more powerful is done just about as perfectly as level scaling could be.

But the argument then is.. why not just keep everything the same power? Literally.. Then throw in some more powerful weapons and you literally have the same feeling and outcome.

Games with "level scaling" and upgrades, are literally just smoke and mirrors to make you think you're doing anything of value, when you're not. Literally.

---------------

I'd rather have a game where some areas are harder, or easier based on my level, skills, equipment, etc, than just always being this stagnant "same power" even though I'm upgrading things.

Again it's just giving a false impression that your upgrades actually did something, when they didn't. The game just just dynamically matched it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Direct quote from you in another post... "This game is hella easy.. It lets you go back to previous area's, and while yes, things scale up with you, those earlier area's are easier.. " So maybe not quite so lazy as you made it sound?

[Ubik Valis]

Originally posted by Pappy:

Direct quote from you in another post... "This game is hella easy.. It lets you go back to previous area's, and while yes, things scale up with you, those earlier area's are easier.. " So maybe not quite so lazy as you made it sound?

You dare mock the goddess Athena?! Prepare to get Zeus'ed.... I'd watch out for any bulls or swans approaching you.

[Pappy]

Originally posted by Ubik Valis:

Originally posted by Pappy:

Direct quote from you in another post... "This game is hella easy.. It lets you go back to previous area's, and while yes, things scale up with you, those earlier area's are easier.. " So maybe not quite so lazy as you made it sound?

You dare mock the goddess Athena?! Prepare to get Zeus'ed.... I'd watch out for any bulls or swans approaching you. :dos2skull:

Thanks for the tip!