Combat against capital ships

[Henry]

I'm new to Everspace 2 (but I have played Everspace 1) and I have reached level 11 without dying a single time. So I suppose I'm not too stupid in this game. In a high risk area the boss has been a lvl 11 outlaw destroyer. The battle took me almost half an hour and I want to ask if this is supposed to be this way, or if I'm doing something fundamentally wrong.
I had a beam laser and a quite good pulse laser. The destroyer spitted out 2 drones and a volley of missiles every few seconds. There were 2 defense turrets on top and bottom each. But when I destroyed them the destroyer blinked yellow/golden and those nasty turrets "regenerated" magically. I think I destroyed the engines too one time.
This was really a pain in the ass and a battle of attrition. I had to speed away frequently to regenerate my shields. Then I destroyed the drones. The I shot at the destroyer. Rinse and repeat.
For loot I got 3 green modules I had no use for. So this was really dissatisfying and changes my opinion of the so far quite good game.

What are your strategies for fighting capitals?
Did I do something wrong?
Is this really supposed to be that hard and time consuming by design? In Everspace 1 fighting capitals was mostly possible with some cover. Here it feels pretty unbalanced. Thoughts?

[U-give-♥-a-Bad-Name]

mmmm... if I remember correctly those ships have massive armor and hull health...
I used a leveled up "marskman" autocannon for the ship itself and a rail gun for all drones. Once drones were down, flying/dodging and unloading everything at the hull worked quite quickly for me ;)

(it didn't take 10 seconds, but it didn't take half an hour either)

Good luck !

p.s. some hard hitting missiles can help as well !

[Mako]

You're not using the best weapons you could for dealing with a destroyer.

You've got a beam laser, which is a precision weapon and hits very accurately but trades off raw damage, and a pulse laser which is very strong on shield damage but not on armor.

The destroyer is a huge target, with no shields, but a good chunk of armor, so not ideal for the weapons you brought.

Sometimes you'll have brought the wrong tool for the job, and even a low quality version of the right tool is what you need in a pinch.

Autocannons, gauss, etc, or rockets are what you want on a high-hull target so big you can't miss, and crafting yourself a pack of common (white) rockets and just blasting away with all of them (and crafting more if you need them!), and a basic autocannon to just recycle after the battle, may have helped you get through that a lot quicker.

[TheDeadlyShoe]

Capital fights should be short and sweet, and certainly not take an hour.

The turrets are not really worth destroying on the pirate destroyer. They are pretty tough! I don't believe damage to them transfers to the hull either. If you were focusing on them you were probably wasting most of your dps.

Boosting away to regen shields is also a mistake imo. I usually orbit the destroyer pretty close, even with slower ships. It helps to have the orbs unlocked from the medic perk if you don't already.

The missile defense device has a mode that repurposes destroyed missiles into ammo (40% chance). You can use this to keep hammering the destroyer with secondary missiles, since it fires those huge volleys of 8 missiles. Or use the +1s per missile destroyed mode to shoot down huge #s of missiles.

Annihilator Virus device also works well on the destroyer since it can nerf its damage for a bit and spread to drones that spawn.

I imagine the Corrosion device would also work well but haven't tried it.

I'd also look into getting Destabilizer missiles. These cause targets hit by them to take like +60% more damage. If you have another secondary slot to then slam them with rockets or regular missiles, or if you use the damage booster consumable, you can do really intense damage really fast.

[Hazzy]

Just following on from the previous two replies, the destroyer also has a weak point that it opens up when you destroy its armour. So it’ll be worth hitting this spot as well using high damaging weapons. You only need to take out the armour using a decent kinetic weapon, but once you are hitting the hull directly, any high damaging weapons (both kinetic + energy) would be best. As both damage types hit the hull. Something like a gauss cannon, bloodstar decimator, beam laser can be viable especially if you just hit the weak spot.

If you have the damage booster consumable, might be worth using that as well to help. Depending on the ship you are flying, the ultimate would also be good to use here as well.

Lastly, you can shoot the turrets if you want, however when you destroy them, they go back inside and regenerate. Iirc it’ll take a lot of damage in a small amount of time to destroy them outright. However I’d personally just focus on the destroyer.

[U-give-♥-a-Bad-Name]

lol

[Henry]

Ok, thanks for the input so far.

According to the "you brought the wrong weapon". First this had been my first capital encounter so I did not know what to expect, neither how to counter it properly. Second I have only 2 weapon slots. So I bring weapons I can use in almost any situation, not a weapon I only need every few hours. I choosed the beam laser for constantly delivering damage and the "locking on" functionality (helps with aiming) so fewer shots do miss. The pulselaser does good damage. I tried a few other weapons and one (gauss cannon?) had to be "loaded up" before firing. That's not my style. I just want to press a button and not do complex timed click patterns.
In the meantime I have switched the beam laser against a superior coil gun I have found. It has a good range and does good damage. I entered a high risk area again and this time I ignored the turrets. Took me 10-15 minutes still.

Originally posted by Mako:

Autocannons, gauss, etc, or rockets are what you want on a high-hull target so big you can't miss, and crafting yourself a pack of common (white) rockets and just blasting away with all of them (and crafting more if you need them!), and a basic autocannon to just recycle after the battle, may have helped you get through that a lot quicker.

I forgot that I can craft in the field too. I have nothing unlocked in the secondary weapons yet. Need to look into that.

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

The turrets are not really worth destroying on the pirate destroyer. They are pretty tough! I don't believe damage to them transfers to the hull either. If you were focusing on them you were probably wasting most of your dps.

I came to that conclusion too. That it is "useless". But I wondered if it is "right" that turrets can't be destroyed. Even if they would only regenerate every 4 minutes would help. But not when they regenerate as soon as I have destroyed them. That feels pretty unfair.

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

Boosting away to regen shields is also a mistake imo. I usually orbit the destroyer pretty close, even with slower ships. It helps to have the orbs unlocked from the medic perk if you don't already.

When shields are down I have not much choice since I can't regenerate armor quickly (with a usable). I also try to circle where turrets can't hit me, or fly close behind it's back. But it's still alot to "manage" with drones and missiles in the mix. And that shields only regenerate when not hit for a certain time does not really help either ;). BTW I have those shields which only regenerate while boosting (afterburner) since they have better stats and since I fly most of the time boosted anyway they help me alot.

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

The missile defense device has a mode that repurposes destroyed missiles into ammo (40% chance). You can use this to keep hammering the destroyer with secondary missiles, since it fires those huge volleys of 8 missiles. Or use the +1s per missile destroyed mode to shoot down huge #s of missiles.

For the devices I have only 2 slots too so the same applies and I bring those I need for regular foes (emp, boosting away). I have never tried to "refit"/change them during flight.

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

Annihilator Virus device also works well on the destroyer since it can nerf its damage for a bit and spread to drones that spawn.
I imagine the Corrosion device would also work well but haven't tried it.

I have not found those yet.

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

I'd also look into getting Destabilizer missiles. These cause targets hit by them to take like +60% more damage. If you have another secondary slot to then slam them with rockets or regular missiles, or if you use the damage booster consumable, you can do really intense damage really fast.

These are pretty specific "prerequisites". I don't know if I can leave the fight, fly home, refit and come back later. Or if the high risk are gets reset/deleted in this case. Also the damage booster only stacks to 3 items and I had one stack of those. But it is used up quickly.

Originally posted by Hazy:

Just following on from the previous two replies, the destroyer also has a weak point that it opens up when you destroy its armour.

Can you describe where this spot is? I only saw the two pylons at the front open up when it fires the missiles.

So you all gave me tips on how to better handle the situation. But I'm also interested if you consider this "fair" and fun or if this should be balanced. Especially those turrets regenerating every few seconds really bothers me. I consider this unfair and unbalanced. I don't know if I have to fight bigger ships later in the game (I am still in Ceto). But albeit I was successful two times now the high effort and "useless" loot really suck the fun out of the game for me.

[Shiuzan]

Originally posted by Henry:

Originally posted by Hazy:

Just following on from the previous two replies, the destroyer also has a weak point that it opens up when you destroy its armour.

Can you describe where this spot is? I only saw the two pylons at the front open up when it fires the missiles.

These weak points are located on the inside of the "arms", they're hard to miss once you know where to look. :)

Originally posted by Henry:

So you all gave me tips on how to better handle the situation. But I'm also interested if you consider this "fair" and fun or if this should be balanced. Especially those turrets regenerating every few seconds really bothers me. I consider this unfair and unbalanced. I don't know if I have to fight bigger ships later in the game (I am still in Ceto). But albeit I was successful two times now the high effort and "useless" loot really suck the fun out of the game for me.

There will be difficulty settings in the future to let individuals chose the challenge/fun factor. Otherwise, I would advise to make sure you are always upgrading your gear. Not just the rarity is important but also the level of it.
Try and balance your damage output between Energy and Kinetic and have missiles / rockets on you at all times.
Hope this helps. :)

[Henry]

In the meantime I have advanced to level 19 and could upgrade most of my equipment to purple/superior, and some blue/rare. Now the fights feel alot more "comfortable". Especially the booster (afterburner) helps alot in quickly circling the target and avoiding beeing hit. My superior (purple) autocannon with +10% more damage for each second fired bonus does enough damage to "quickly" kill the target (approximately 2-3 minutes without "interruption"). This is acceptable and now I'm regularly killing those destroyers in high risk areas without much hassle. So I guess the topic is solved for me. Thanks for all the input.

I just want to contradict that certain weapon types (laser) are not suitable. I have found a superior/purple lvl 19 rapid jaeger (pulselaser) which quickly takes care of enemies. Much quicker than other weapons I have tried. So I guess lasers are not "bad" per se but it all depends on the stats and bonuses. And since those depend on the stuff you find (loot, traders) there is no definite path of weapons to choose but it all depends on your "luck". And you have to try out the weapons and adapt to the situation.

Originally posted by Shiuzan:

These weak points are located on the inside of the "arms", they're hard to miss once you know where to look. :)

Ahh, thanks. I have seen those but assumed this has to do with the missile volley beeing fired.

Originally posted by Shiuzan:

There will be difficulty settings in the future to let individuals chose the challenge/fun factor.

Picking "easy" difficulty would ashame me ;). And I guess having a hard target forces me to adapt/learn. Those tips helped me and now the issue is solved for me.

Originally posted by Shiuzan:

Otherwise, I would advise to make sure you are always upgrading your gear. Not just the rarity is important but also the level of it.

Since I can only upgrade each item once, I usually pick the quality since it seems this adds more bonus. Am I wrong?

Originally posted by Shiuzan:

Try and balance your damage output between Energy and Kinetic and have missiles / rockets on you at all times.

I also find it important how good a weapon is able to hit, not just the pure damage numbers (dps). A higher dps which hits only half the time is not helping. For example I can hit best with the pulselaser (at range and close by) wheras a coilgun I have used a while often misses albeit it's a insta hit weapon. I think this has to do with preference/reflexes or how the game handles "collisions". I have played Freelancer alot and there where no insta hit weapons so maybe I'm trained toward those "pulses".

Originally posted by Shiuzan:

Hope this helps. :)

It really does. Thanks for all the tips. The game is amazing (at least now when my equipment does not make babies cry anymore ;)). Keep up the good work.

[U-give-♥-a-Bad-Name]

For me, those gargantuan ships are always fun to go against :)
I would definitely NOT want all ships to be sponge bullets, but now and then... hard hitting a giant target is exciting !

Henry, you couldn't be more right when you mentioned, "preference/reflexes" influencing how "good" a weapon is. It mostly depends on the user...
A part of overall damage is related to what you hit (shield VS armor), but ultimately, IF you actually hit is more relevant.

It's the same exact principle in M.A. Some prefer the Long Staff while others favor Tonfas. Some like outboxing while others slug it out ;)

[TehJumpingJawa]

Once fully kitted with damage amp, optimal gatling & rockets, you'll be killing them in ~5 seconds.

[ToJKa]

This might be obvious, but i'll write it down anyway: weapons do both physical and energy damage. Most do both, some do only one. Armor is only hurt by physical damage, which is low on lasers. so against Destroyers it is better to use weapons with high physical damage, such as autocannons and missiles.

As for the destroyers themselves, they are dangerous at early levels, but by level 20 i eat them alive. A level 20 Elite Destroyer i can destroy in seconds. And they are the only actually dangerous enemy in the current game. Inquisitors and drone carriers are a joke by the time they show up. Well, drone carriers are always jokes because they can't shoot below them and their drones can't attack.

I am seriously looking forward to more dangerous, higher tier enemies. And more heavy fighter parts.

[Jamma]

Originally posted by Henry:

Ok, thanks for the input so far.

According to the "you brought the wrong weapon". First this had been my first capital encounter so I did not know what to expect, neither how to counter it properly. Second I have only 2 weapon slots. So I bring weapons I can use in almost any situation, not a weapon I only need every few hours. I choosed the beam laser for constantly delivering damage and the "locking on" functionality (helps with aiming) so fewer shots do miss. The pulselaser does good damage. I tried a few other weapons and one (gauss cannon?) had to be "loaded up" before firing. That's not my style. I just want to press a button and not do complex timed click patterns.
In the meantime I have switched the beam laser against a superior coil gun I have found. It has a good range and does good damage. I entered a high risk area again and this time I ignored the turrets. Took me 10-15 minutes still.

You do know that you can switch primary weapons in-fight? I keep a good stock of my weapons of choice in the inventory and swap in as needed. I found a zapper pretty useful once against a destroyer but currently, I use Thermo gun and Syncro Pulse mostly.

Originally posted by Henry:

Originally posted by TheDeadlyShoe:

I'd also look into getting Destabilizer missiles. These cause targets hit by them to take like +60% more damage. If you have another secondary slot to then slam them with rockets or regular missiles, or if you use the damage booster consumable, you can do really intense damage really fast.

These are pretty specific "prerequisites". I don't know if I can leave the fight, fly home, refit and come back later. Or if the high risk are gets reset/deleted in this case. Also the damage booster only stacks to 3 items and I had one stack of those. But it is used up quickly.

I also keep a nice assortment of missiles in my inventory.

But after excessive missile use while flying a bomber, I actually don't use them anymore - too expensive, not worth the effort. LOL.

[Henry]

Originally posted by ToJKa:

This might be obvious, but i'll write it down anyway: weapons do both physical and energy damage.

I'm aware of that ;).

Originally posted by ToJKa:

As for the destroyers themselves, they are dangerous at early levels, but by level 20 i eat them alive.

I was Lvl 11 when I encountered my first destroyer at the same level. And my equipment was pretty bad. Now at level 20 with mostly purple (superior) equipment I have no issues any more. Still I did not die in the game so far.
An important effect IMO has the special bonus of purple quipment. I have 4 modules with roughly +200 firepower. That translates into +450% damage.

Originally posted by Jamma:

You do know that you can switch primary weapons in-fight?

I know.

Originally posted by Jamma:

I keep a good stock of my weapons of choice in the inventory and swap in as needed.

But inventory space is precious. If I'd had more slots ore more inventory space this would be feasible. But as it is I rather bring my loot home.

Originally posted by Jamma:

I found a zapper pretty useful once against a destroyer but currently, I use Thermo gun and Syncro Pulse mostly.

I prefer a Salvor pulse laser and an Autocannon.

Originally posted by Jamma:

I also keep a nice assortment of missiles in my inventory.

I rarely use them any more. I do almost as much damage with a single hit of a primary weapon as with a missile. Especially for large targets missiles seem pretty useless to me.

[Rhophius]

Armour breaker missiles, emp and arc9k = dead caps

[Johnny Hazard]

If you start the game with the early principle of dismantling each and every normal item you find (grey and greens at least), you get enough resources to unlock all normal weapons and be able to craft them when needed.
For the destroyer, it's pretty simple: craft destabilizer missiles and rockets. Shoot 1 destabilizer, and then rocket shower on the big ship. Bam, dead.