Game Improvements

[atheist4thecause]

The 60 second timer really needs to go. As a new player, it's incredibly tough to play big turns in under 60 seconds. I've even watched top players play and lose games because they ran out of time. Do we really want games won and lost even at the highest levels based on a timer? I think 90 seconds should be the lowest timer. People don't have to use the time and it won't significantly increase game length, it'll just be there for the big turns.

There should be a 30 second prep phase at the beginning of the game. This would allow players to look at the map and come up with a strategy based on the placement they got, figure out where Blizzards are, etc.

[Thurston Forbush III]

Don't agree on 30 second prep.
Wholeheartedly agree on the 60 second timer. I actually think 60 second timer games are longer. Like you said it's harder to accomplish some moves under 60 seconds, like eliminating a player. This keeps the player, in danger of being eliminated, in the game longer.
I think people believe that 60 second turns make the game shorter, I think it's the exact opposite. I won't consider playing a 60 second game. Ninety is pretty optimal. One twenty should be OK, but far too many players take the full 120 to make one, extremely obvious, move. That annoys the crap out of me.

[bobgoggles]

It sounds like you may have camera animations on.. does it take you a while to attack and move troops because the screen zooms in and out? That is the most time consuming part of the game for new players because it needlessly wastes time and does not let you attack/move fast.

If you experience that go to settings/gameplay and look for the animations options and turn off "camera animations". That will let you make multiple attacks in a single second and do much more each turn. With speed and planning one can completely clear most maps in a 60 second turn.

All top players I watch prefer the 60 second timer. I too have seen top players miss a kill or lose because of running out of time, but it was usually because they wasted too much time talking to chat or thinking out loud.. moving fast is almost never the issue once you get the mechanics of it down.

The best players will usually recognize when a full clear is not possible, and act accordingly by taking strategic positions as they can.. be it going for a cap run, finding a choke point to fortify, or taking as many different territories as possible while also being sure to do it in such a way as to make each subsequent turn for their opponents harder(like leaving random stacks of troops everywhere or making sure to take every spot they can that forces their opponent to split troops).

If animations slowing you down is not the issue or you just want more time anyway what you can do is either create your own games and set the timer to 90-120 seconds, or if joining games change the search parameters to only show games with those longer timers.

You technically never have to play 60 second timer games if you dont want to, but I recommend you do as I think it forces you to get better at planning and decisiveness, which will definitely benefit your gameplay in the end.

[atheist4thecause]

Originally posted by bobgoggles:

It sounds like you may have camera animations on.. does it take you a while to attack and move troops because the screen zooms in and out? That is the most time consuming part of the game for new players because it needlessly wastes time and does not let you attack/move fast.

If you experience that go to settings/gameplay and look for the animations options and turn off "camera animations". That will let you make multiple attacks in a single second and do much more each turn. With speed and planning one can completely clear most maps in a 60 second turn.

All top players I watch prefer the 60 second timer. I too have seen top players miss a kill or lose because of running out of time, but it was usually because they wasted too much time talking to chat or thinking out loud.. moving fast is almost never the issue once you get the mechanics of it down.

The best players will usually recognize when a full clear is not possible, and act accordingly by taking strategic positions as they can.. be it going for a cap run, finding a choke point to fortify, or taking as many different territories as possible while also being sure to do it in such a way as to make each subsequent turn for their opponents harder(like leaving random stacks of troops everywhere or making sure to take every spot they can that forces their opponent to split troops).

If animations slowing you down is not the issue or you just want more time anyway what you can do is either create your own games and set the timer to 90-120 seconds, or if joining games change the search parameters to only show games with those longer timers.

You technically never have to play 60 second timer games if you dont want to, but I recommend you do as I think it forces you to get better at planning and decisiveness, which will definitely benefit your gameplay in the end.

1) I didn't say top players don't prefer 60 seconds, I said that I've seen them lose based on the timer running out. Do we really want World Champions decided by a timer?
2) If you have to attack less than you wanted to attack then you ran out of time. I don't know why you are qualifying that as not running out of time. Even fortifying in a good position, that can cost one a game if the other player can then turn in cards, get reinforcements, and make a play.
3) A lot of what you said was "when you get better at the mechanics", etc. The game should not be built for veteran players at the cost of the beginners. Doing that will force beginners to quit and the game to stagnant.

[bobgoggles]

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

1) I didn't say top players don't prefer 60 seconds, I said that I've seen them lose based on the timer running out. Do we really want World Champions decided by a timer?

I didnt say you said that either I simply pointed it out. As far as deciding the winner of tournaments skill decides that, not timers. I think you are in the minority here and am willing to bet most people do want short timers in this day and age of short attention spans and the desire for instant gratification.

Also I'm curious if you have seen a tournament decided by someone running out of time and losing? If so can you link the video and time? I kind of doubt it has happened and think you are just using a hypothetical.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

2) If you have to attack less than you wanted to attack then you ran out of time. I don't know why you are qualifying that as not running out of time. Even fortifying in a good position, that can cost one a game if the other player can then turn in cards, get reinforcements, and make a play.

Changing your strategy to meet the time frame available is not the same as running out of time. You said they lost when running out of time, meaning they failed to finish what they were trying to do in the given time frame and that failure put them in a losing position. This is where we fundamentally disagree on what happened. You say it was the timer. I say they did not lose because of the timer, but because they took to long thinking and/or did not adjust their strategy to the limitations of the timer.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

3) A lot of what you said was "when you get better at the mechanics", etc.

Actually the vast majority of what I said was not about mechanics. Half of my reply was trying to help you by asking about your settings and telling you that you are not required to play 60 second timer games.. but for some reason you ignored all that. The other half was about what top players prefer, why I think they ran out of time when I was watching, ways to play within a shorter window of time, and a single line pointing out that mechanics are almost never the issue once learned.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

The game should not be built for veteran players at the cost of the beginners. Doing that will force beginners to quit and the game to stagnant.

As I said, you dont have to play 60 second timers, so this point is moot. You can play 90-120 second timers all you want, but again I suggest you dont because you will not be challenged as much and improve slower.

Also the game is already stagnant and its not because of the timer. Its because of bugs, cheaters, a sub par dice system, and the devs doing nothing to fix the game.. just making DLCs as a top priority.

Last I have to say quite frankly if you cannot learn to move and attack fast you either are not trying or have an abnormal lack of hand eye coordination.. its not hard at all and there are resources that can help if you just look. Here is a one minute video that can help if you are still having issues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7qQ8w2k4QI

[atheist4thecause]

Originally posted by bobgoggles:

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

1) I didn't say top players don't prefer 60 seconds, I said that I've seen them lose based on the timer running out. Do we really want World Champions decided by a timer?

I didnt say you said that either I simply pointed it out. As far as deciding the winner of tournaments skill decides that, not timers. I think you are in the minority here and am willing to bet most people do want short timers in this day and age of short attention spans and the desire for instant gratification.

Also I'm curious if you have seen a tournament decided by someone running out of time and losing? If so can you link the video and time? I kind of doubt it has happened and think you are just using a hypothetical.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

2) If you have to attack less than you wanted to attack then you ran out of time. I don't know why you are qualifying that as not running out of time. Even fortifying in a good position, that can cost one a game if the other player can then turn in cards, get reinforcements, and make a play.

Changing your strategy to meet the time frame available is not the same as running out of time. You said they lost when running out of time, meaning they failed to finish what they were trying to do in the given time frame and that failure put them in a losing position. This is where we fundamentally disagree on what happened. You say it was the timer. I say they did not lose because of the timer, but because they took to long thinking and/or did not adjust their strategy to the limitations of the timer.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

3) A lot of what you said was "when you get better at the mechanics", etc.

Actually the vast majority of what I said was not about mechanics. Half of my reply was trying to help you by asking about your settings and telling you that you are not required to play 60 second timer games.. but for some reason you ignored all that. The other half was about what top players prefer, why I think they ran out of time when I was watching, ways to play within a shorter window of time, and a single line pointing out that mechanics are almost never the issue once learned.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

The game should not be built for veteran players at the cost of the beginners. Doing that will force beginners to quit and the game to stagnant.

As I said, you dont have to play 60 second timers, so this point is moot. You can play 90-120 second timers all you want, but again I suggest you dont because you will not be challenged as much and improve slower.

Also the game is already stagnant and its not because of the timer. Its because of bugs, cheaters, a sub par dice system, and the devs doing nothing to fix the game.. just making DLCs as a top priority.

Last I have to say quite frankly if you cannot learn to move and attack fast you either are not trying or have an abnormal lack of hand eye coordination.. its not hard at all and there are resources that can help if you just look. Here is a one minute video that can help if you are still having issues:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7qQ8w2k4QI

Given the beginning of your statement, you're being bad faith and I'm not going to continue reading your comments. You were directly responding to something I said and then saying you didn't say I said something. Well, not explicitly, but when you're responding to my point then clearly you are responding to my arguments. Please take your bad faith arguments elsewhere. It's people like you that reduce the quality of the community.

[Kenpoleon Bonaparte]

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Do we really want World Champions decided by a timer?

Chess competitions have been decided by a timer for decades. Timers are nothing new, so you will not win an argument over the use of timers. Personally though, I am with you in that I absolutely hate timers.

I considered myself a pretty good chess player back in my younger day. I could routinely beat all family, friends, and co-workers I played against. Then in the mid-to-late 90's when playing chess online became a big thing, I quickly found out that I suck under that kind of pressure. I'm not an idiot that takes forever to do my turn, but I need more than 60 seconds to make a decision. Almost every game that I tried to find online was either a 60-second timer or a 30-second timer. I could not compete with that.

With that said, BobGoggles is correct in that learning to think AND respond in 60 seconds or less is a skill. It is not a skill I wish to learn, so I do not play online games in which the host of the game requires a timer that short.

Originally posted by bobgoggles:

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

The game should not be built for veteran players at the cost of the beginners. Doing that will force beginners to quit and the game to stagnant.

Also the game is already stagnant and its not because of the timer. Its because of bugs, cheaters, a sub par dice system, and the devs doing nothing to fix the game.. just making DLCs as a top priority.

BobGoggles is also correct about this. The devs constantly churn out new in-game store goodies like DLC map packs, avatars, troop shapes, and funky dice. However, they have refused for years to fix the well-known and long-standing problem of cheating. A lot of the time they refuse to even acknowledge that any cheating went on in a game even when you report it. Many of the players in this game with a "Grandmaster" rank don't deserve it because they cheated to get it. New players are not chased off by the fact there is a timer. They are chased off by the rampant cheating they see going on.

[bobgoggles]

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Given the beginning of your statement, you're being bad faith and I'm not going to continue reading your comments. You were directly responding to something I said and then saying you didn't say I said something. Well, not explicitly, but when you're responding to my point then clearly you are responding to my arguments.

Again you are conflating as you did with running out of time vs making a strategic error. Telling you that top players prefer a shorter timer is not the same as saying you said otherwise. Directly responding to your comments is what people do when having a conversation or debate in good faith. You refusing to read or respond to what I say is bad faith, stop projecting.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Please take your bad faith arguments elsewhere. It's people like you that reduce the quality of the community.

Actually its people like you, who refuse to hear a different viewpoint, who refuse to acknowledge or respond to what others say, that harm the community. I have helped people in this community many times. What have you done for the community? I tried to help you, twice, but you ignored that to falsely call my disagreement and direct response to what you said bad faith. You write whatever thoughts you have and expect blind agreement or silence. That is not how the world works.

Finally I will add this regarding you abusing the term "Bad Faith":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

[atheist4thecause]

Originally posted by bobgoggles:

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Given the beginning of your statement, you're being bad faith and I'm not going to continue reading your comments. You were directly responding to something I said and then saying you didn't say I said something. Well, not explicitly, but when you're responding to my point then clearly you are responding to my arguments.

Again you are conflating as you did with running out of time vs making a strategic error. Telling you that top players prefer a shorter timer is not the same as saying you said otherwise. Directly responding to your comments is what people do when having a conversation or debate in good faith. You refusing to read or respond to what I say is bad faith, stop projecting.

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Please take your bad faith arguments elsewhere. It's people like you that reduce the quality of the community.

Actually its people like you, who refuse to hear a different viewpoint, who refuse to acknowledge or respond to what others say, that harm the community. I have helped people in this community many times. What have you done for the community? I tried to help you, twice, but you ignored that to falsely call my disagreement and direct response to what you said bad faith. You write whatever thoughts you have and expect blind agreement or silence. That is not how the world works.

Finally I will add this regarding you abusing the term "Bad Faith":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Why do you keep responding to me when you know I'm not reading your comments because you are in bad faith?

[Kenpoleon Bonaparte]

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Why do you keep responding to me when you know I'm not reading your comments because you are in bad faith?

Jim? Is that you?

[bobgoggles]

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Why do you keep responding to me when you know I'm not reading your comments

LMAO a better question would be how do you know I responded to you if you didnt read my reply? Didnt think that one through did ya?

I am responding because unlike you I have a position that I can logically assert with substance to prove me right, whereas you are afraid to acknowledge what I am saying because you know you are wrong and have no counterargument.. so instead you hypocritically call me bad faith while refusing to engage in good faith.

Just take the L man you are embarrassing yourself.

Originally posted by Kenpoleon Bonaparte:

Originally posted by atheist4thecause:

Why do you keep responding to me when you know I'm not reading your comments because you are in bad faith?

Jim? Is that you?

lol

[MaskMcgee]

Just keep hitting the enter key insta attack

[Jim]

I have my filter set for 2min timer thats enough to clean a board when the time comes.
I have the DefenderBobs blocked,
If they dont like your post they become FlamerBobs to get your post closed.
Its best not to engage with them at all.

[bobgoggles]

Originally posted by Jim:

I have my filter set for 2min timer thats enough to clean a board when the time comes.

Jim: I have 5 decades experience I dont need to improve, its just that everyone cheats and the devs make me lose! I have 3000 hours on this game version alone anyone with less time played is not to be taken seriously! (Thats 4 months in hours played!)

Also Jim: I need a 2 minute timer to clear the starter map

Classic Jim!

This is a perfect post to show why what I said about a short timer not helping you improve is true. With this amount of experience dude should be a GM every season, rapid fire smashing his way through maps, but is stuck at novice bc he wont challenge himself or accept responsibility for his losses.

Originally posted by Jim:

I have the DefenderBobs blocked,

-And I still religiously read everything they say

Originally posted by Jim:

Its best not to engage with them at all.

-But I will never take my own advice

[Kenpoleon Bonaparte]

Originally posted by Jim:

I have the DefenderBobs blocked,
If they dont like your post they become FlamerBobs to get your post closed.

LMAO. It's Jim who can't make a comment on these forums without insulting/flaming at least one person in the process. But sure, it's OTHER PEOPLE who get the threads locked.

Classic Jim, never accepting responsibility for his own wrong behavior.

[th00000]

Originally posted by bobgoggles:

It sounds like you may have camera animations on.. does it take you a while to attack and move troops because the screen zooms in and out? That is the most time consuming part of the game for new players because it needlessly wastes time and does not let you attack/move fast.

If you experience that go to settings/gameplay and look for the animations options and turn off "camera animations". That will let you make multiple attacks in a single second and do much more each turn. With speed and planning one can completely clear most maps in a 60 second turn.

All top players I watch prefer the 60 second timer. I too have seen top players miss a kill or lose because of running out of time, but it was usually because they wasted too much time talking to chat or thinking out loud.. moving fast is almost never the issue once you get the mechanics of it down.

The best players will usually recognize when a full clear is not possible, and act accordingly by taking strategic positions as they can.. be it going for a cap run, finding a choke point to fortify, or taking as many different territories as possible while also being sure to do it in such a way as to make each subsequent turn for their opponents harder(like leaving random stacks of troops everywhere or making sure to take every spot they can that forces their opponent to split troops).

If animations slowing you down is not the issue or you just want more time anyway what you can do is either create your own games and set the timer to 90-120 seconds, or if joining games change the search parameters to only show games with those longer timers.

You technically never have to play 60 second timer games if you don't want to, but I recommend you do as I think it forces you to get better at planning and decisiveness, which will definitely benefit your game play in the end.

Thanks for that...been playing for years and always wondered how some players go lightning fast.....every player needs to know this.....