Discussing...lore?

[Trevor Drakenor]

Something I've been curious about, This game is also in the same universe as GFL right? never played that game but heard a bit of it, I think it's a Gacha game about machine men called dolls named after irl firearms and that's it.

Dolls are mentioned in this game, but with the way URNC and AU are. wreckages of mechs and tanks. The firepower they bring, and how well-equipped the soldiers are. Especially the one in the contamination zone, where a single battalion consist of 40+ mechs.

I cant help but feel like, the dolls in GFL have become obsolete in this setting. got almost completely phased out. if a single infantry can have the same gear, firepower, or training if not more. what is the point of producing machine men that likely cost more than just training able bodied men that they can just grab off the recruitment center by the dozen?

URNC dont seem to have dolls in their army, and AU might have some still in service. Only mentioned pretty briefly though.

Im kinda new to all of this, so I am missing out on a lot of the stories leading up to Reverse Collapse. I normally just skim through the lore, understanding only the gist of it. But the thought that the dolls that are rather dominant in GFL became phased out in favor of conventional military in Reverse Collapse is pretty interesting to me.

Might be thinking too much though, stray thoughts and all that.

[It is my CAT]

I think, dolls in gatcha are popular, because they need to make as many girls as possible for all tastes)
Meanwhile in RC they are weak, both, in gameplay and according to story.

[Ҝ卂Ҝ卂丂卄丨]

Reverse collapse takes place for 20-40 years earlier than Girls Frontline

[Trevor Drakenor]

Originally posted by Ҝ卂Ҝ卂丂卄丨:

Reverse collapse takes place for 20-40 years earlier than Girls Frontline

Really? there seem to be conflicting reports on that. some say reverse collapse takes places before GFL, other say it takes place in the future. not sure which one is which.

Oh wait, is Shrike a thing in GFL? given how AU treated shrike as something very serious, being near impervious to conventional firearm and all that. I think it might be mentioned there too?

[Ҝ卂Ҝ卂丂卄丨]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

Originally posted by Ҝ卂Ҝ卂丂卄丨:

Reverse collapse takes place for 20-40 years earlier than Girls Frontline

Really? there seem to be conflicting reports on that. some say reverse collapse takes places before GFL, other say it takes place in the future. not sure which one is which.

Oh wait, is Shrike a thing in GFL? given how AU treated shrike as something very serious, being near impervious to conventional firearm and all that. I think it might be mentioned there too?

Sorry, i dont actually know any info about GFL because havent played it. I just remember that ive read somewhere about reverse collapse taking place before GFL. If im not wrong RC is 2060-2080, GFL being 2100+

[Ҝ卂Ҝ卂丂卄丨]

Well, ive just checked the wiki about GFL timeline. Its pretty hard to say what was first, because GFL timeline is started in 1905 when Tsarist Russia have found first relics (Also mentioned in RC) and, at the moment, is ended in 2112 where Second Antarctic War takes a place. The RC takes place during First Antarctic War in 2092

[NoahAU]

Originally posted by Ҝ卂Ҝ卂丂卄丨:

Well, ive just checked the wiki about GFL timeline. Its pretty hard to say what was first, because GFL timeline is started in 1905 when Tsarist Russia have found first relics (Also mentioned in RC) and, at the moment, is ended in 2112 where Second Antarctic War takes a place. The RC takes place during First Antarctic War in 2092

For a timeline, GFL1 is in the 2060s, GFL2 is in the 2070s, and Reverse Collapse takes place in the 2090s. Most the doll technology started booming in the 2030s until the events begin to unravel in GFL1's story. But yeah, dolls are just robots at the end of the day and with humanity constantly wanting to make stronger technology, moved over to transhumanism with one of the major GFL1 antagonist factions, later into what we have now with complete artificial lifeforms being Shrikes. Dolls fought russian military troops plenty in GFL1 and won, but they still had pretty hard times doing it due to the military having their own commanders who controlled mechs or simple footsoldier robots. It goes without saying that dolls would be completely devastated in a fight if Shrikes popped up that early.
Child versions of shrikes might show up later into Girls Frontline 2's lifespan, but it's too early to say unless it's just showing the research on them beginning.

[Trevor Drakenor]

It does seem to make sense that way... hmm.. suddenly the title Girls frontline, made me think it was named like that because during those years. The "Girls" are far more influential during the time when the Dolls were introduced up to the very end of it. Somewhere between GFL and RC that era is over as conventional military forces return to a stronger position.

That and maybe all these research into shrikes. come to think of it, the shrikes seems more like an experiment used to find a way to inject whatever it is to turn regular person into super soldier.

Also... that one time where Mendo just strolled up into the refugee transport and change the dolls targeting parameter that easily. I'm starting to see why URNC never have them. Looks like during this timeline, Dolls role are reduced to just civil security. Or was the Doll in the story are part of AU? way they talk of them sounded like those doll are 3rd party factions.

[Ҝ卂Ҝ卂丂卄丨]

As Mendo said, the dolls we have met are outdated thats why they are reduced to civic security. Speaking of shrikes, they are doubtly were made to make human into superhuman, because shrikes cells are absolutely different. I dont know what chapter are you on at the moment, but if we consider what was said in prologue of 5th chapter, we will notice that shrikes are surely have different purpose

[NoahAU]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

It does seem to make sense that way... hmm.. suddenly the title Girls frontline, made me think it was named like that because during those years. The "Girls" are far more influential during the time when the Dolls were introduced up to the very end of it. Somewhere between GFL and RC that era is over as conventional military forces return to a stronger position.

That and maybe all these research into shrikes. come to think of it, the shrikes seems more like an experiment used to find a way to inject whatever it is to turn regular person into super soldier.

Also... that one time where Mendo just strolled up into the refugee transport and change the dolls targeting parameter that easily. I'm starting to see why URNC never have them. Looks like during this timeline, Dolls role are reduced to just civil security. Or was the Doll in the story are part of AU? way they talk of them sounded like those doll are 3rd party factions.

Dolls always started out as normal civilian purpose robots, but the majority of them ended up being unemployed either due to outdated specs or just being unable to find a job. The Griffin PMC that the GFL1 MC works at as an officer would recruit them as hired hands because the head didn't want to waste human blood. Due to the majority of the world being filled with radiation from WW3 is what caused dolls to boom in operations since they wouldn't be as badly affected, but humans are still plenty relevant in warfare during GFL1 and 2.
The advanced AIs(Neural Clouds) that the dolls use are still expensive, which is why normal militaries would use standard robots as their main force with humans directing them. I imagine when Relic tech started to improve in the AU and by product the URNC, more manpower was preferred over relying on AI.

[Trevor Drakenor]

Ah so its GFL for that reason then.

Just found something when I was playing yesterday. Dolls Right Act, huh...
I wonder if this is also talked about at GFL 1 since this mentioned about rising crime against doll during those year.

So dolls, are more than just being intelligent. Seemingly sentient? something about them having different culture and their own place within the society.

The Act talked about them constantly getting duped into doing crime and all that, abuse, harassment, abduction, exploitation, hijacked, indecent act, etc etc. Before those years, the law could not protect them because they, well, considered aint living which lead to all kind of misconduct done against them.

Thinking about it... wouldn't they be the most suited for fighting shrike? they may not be strong, but given the anti shrike research AU is doing, and I think, Dolls cant be turned into shrike by the blood mist or turn into elid by something else. They could be used to contain this, shrike cell thingy outbreak like the warsawa incident no? Just that URNC dont have them, just used incendiary instead.

[NoahAU]

Dolls fighting shrikes seems like a bad idea going by what we saw towards the end with Sugar's ability to corrupt machinery into Shrike weapons along with no source of blood bullets to start causing damage, looking at the Suburban Defense cannons. All dolls are still standard machines with an advanced AI, but they still need to take care of themselves if they're unemployed. During the timeskip in Girls Frontline 2, it showed one of the doll characters ended up living by themselves by renting an apartment and worked at a local cafe during the downtime manned by other dolls from the former PMC. Regarding crime, there are doll black markets where traffickers try to steal unmanned dolls by themselves and disassemble them for parts to sell, or hack them with USBs/ect to reset their Neural Cloud so they have a free doll to use as they want. Mainly would work on low-spec dolls since the higher tech doll you create, the more resistant they are to hacking. For instance, AK15 is considered in the story to be the strongest T-Doll created by the Soviet Union, and hacking like that simply wouldn't work on her. https://iopwiki.com/wiki/AK-15

Back to shrikes, we see other times that even the gigantic ELIDs have troubles fighting shrikes despite their ability advantage just due to their regeneration and mobility, so it's hard to see dolls fairly much better when ELIDs have far more destructive power and defenses. They may be able to hold their own if they had blood bullets and were special-ops dolls, but I don't see common dolls being able to deal with them.

[Cyber Von Cyberus]

I have to say I'm a little surprised we don't see a few Cyclops units mixed in among the URNC forces, they used to be everywhere in GFL (although Svarog still seems to have the monopoly on tanks) maybe it's because this is such a remote region that the local garrison isn't given as much gear. (although I suspect it's simply that they didn't think there was need for another infantry enemy)

[Cyber Von Cyberus]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

So dolls, are more than just being intelligent. Seemingly sentient? something about them having different culture and their own place within the society.

From playing GFL and PNC, I've seen two kinds of dolls;

Mass produced, skeletonized dolls with a relatively simplistic Neural Cloud. These mainly include Svarog's Cyclops model which are used as foot soldiers under the command of human officers or as simple manual labor in dangerous environements such Pavel. We've never seen the military ones speak or do anything to suggest they have emotions, although the construction variant does seem to have the ability to think and have some emotions although they remain fairly subservient.
https://iopwiki.com/wiki/Automaton

Dolls with full Neural Clouds used for jobs which require experience and specialization and can't be fulfilled by a simple automaton. They generally are employed in the civilian sector but we do see some dolls which are purposefuly built for combat such as the DEFY team and the AR team, those are rare though due to their high cost. Starting from the 3rd generation of dolls, they had enough self learning capacity that they didn't need an initial personality to be programmed into them to act as sapient beings anymore.

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

The Act talked about them constantly getting duped into doing crime and all that, abuse, harassment, abduction, exploitation, hijacked, indecent act, etc etc. Before those years, the law could not protect them because they, well, considered aint living which lead to all kind of misconduct done against them.

Due to their often specialized nature, dolls can't always adapt to a change of environement once they get replaced by some new and more performant model, once they're left homeless they're easy prey for lowlife due to their need for power and expensive maintenance, additionally, most civilians dolls have a failsafe that prevents them from using lethal force against humans unless ordered to which adds to the danger they face. And of course as you can imagine plenty of people are mad about "the robots taking their jobs".

[Sergalius]

Originally posted by Cyber Von Cyberus:

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

So dolls, are more than just being intelligent. Seemingly sentient? something about them having different culture and their own place within the society.

From playing GFL and PNC, I've seen two kinds of dolls;

Mass produced, skeletonized dolls with a relatively simplistic Neural Cloud. These mainly include Svarog's Cyclops model which are used as foot soldiers under the command of human officers or as simple manual labor in dangerous environements such Pavel. We've never seen the military ones speak or do anything to suggest they have emotions, although the construction variant does seem to have the ability to think and have some emotions although they remain fairly subservient.
https://iopwiki.com/wiki/Automaton

Dolls with full Neural Clouds used for jobs which require experience and specialization and can't be fulfilled by a simple automaton. They generally are employed in the civilian sector but we do see some dolls which are purposefuly built for combat such as the DEFY team and the AR team, those are rare though due to their high cost. Starting from the 3rd generation of dolls, they had enough self learning capacity that they didn't need an initial personality to be programmed into them to act as sapient beings anymore.

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

The Act talked about them constantly getting duped into doing crime and all that, abuse, harassment, abduction, exploitation, hijacked, indecent act, etc etc. Before those years, the law could not protect them because they, well, considered aint living which lead to all kind of misconduct done against them.

Due to their often specialized nature, dolls can't always adapt to a change of environement once they get replaced by some new and more performant model, once they're left homeless they're easy prey for lowlife due to their need for power and expensive maintenance, additionally, most civilians dolls have a failsafe that prevents them from using lethal force against humans unless ordered to which adds to the danger they face. And of course as you can imagine plenty of people are mad about "the robots taking their jobs".

Basically Reverse collapse is outdated or...



Timeline was changed to make dolls stronger.
With stronger dolls - SKK can prevent the Reverse collapse timeline
Basically Bakery is bad end of gfl timeline.

[Sergalius]

Originally posted by Trevor Drakenor:

Ah so its GFL for that reason then.

Just found something when I was playing yesterday. Dolls Right Act, huh...
I wonder if this is also talked about at GFL 1 since this mentioned about rising crime against doll during those year.

So dolls, are more than just being intelligent. Seemingly sentient? something about them having different culture and their own place within the society.

The Act talked about them constantly getting duped into doing crime and all that, abuse, harassment, abduction, exploitation, hijacked, indecent act, etc etc. Before those years, the law could not protect them because they, well, considered aint living which lead to all kind of misconduct done against them.

Thinking about it... wouldn't they be the most suited for fighting shrike? they may not be strong, but given the anti shrike research AU is doing, and I think, Dolls cant be turned into shrike by the blood mist or turn into elid by something else. They could be used to contain this, shrike cell thingy outbreak like the warsawa incident no? Just that URNC dont have them, just used incendiary instead.

it is so funny when we see dolls in gfl and f*cking Ak-15
yea yea usual military is suddenly better to fight ELID monsters as shrike are.
Bakery is so f*cking outdated