Helixvision Beta with support of SuperDepth3D VR ?

[VR-Punk]

hey, is there a github or anything else to test some games ?

[VR-Punk]

Tridef VR ist still working !

Workaround: https://www.reddit.com/user/epiesilon/

[VR-Punk]

If i will use your SBS Shader, is it then full-sbs or half-sbs ? If it is half-sbs, have i to set a 8k resolution to get real 4k resolution ? Are "SD3D" and "Tridef 3D" using half-sbs ?

[Bo3b]

Originally posted by VR-Punk:

If i will use your SBS Shader, is it then full-sbs or half-sbs ? If it is half-sbs, have i to set a 8k resolution to get real 4k resolution ? Are "SD3D" and "Tridef 3D" using half-sbs ?

Using my SBS shader it will be half-SBS, but how it looks depends upon how the image is generated. In ROTTR for example, they clearly do a full SBS, which is compressed/scaled down to squished half-SBS on the main screen. My shader then expands that back out, unsquishing it. Pixel-wise that's half-SBS, but it looks far better because they started with a full image.

SD3D normally will use a half-SBS, but he has a new option in preprocessor definitions to do channel compression to make it full-SBS with some minor color artifacting. If you use his SuperDepth3D_VR+, that supports a full-SBS output directly to Katanga.

For Tridef- I'm not sure. Probably worth asking on the mtbs3d.com forums.

[VR-Punk]

i tested assassins creed valhalla in SuperDepth3D_VR+ with Companion App and even if i tried all AA and Sharpening plugins of reshade it looks ugly. Then i tested the SuperDepth3D SBS (without "_VR+") with Vorpx Desktop Viewer and valhalla looks great, i guess this was just half-sbs ! And if Katanga uses SuperDepth3D_VR+ in full-sbs it will look even much better ?

[VR-Punk]

I guess tridef vr uses full-sbs, so it would be possible to use tridef 3d in Kantanga in full-sbs with some kind of "reverse engineering"

[VR-Punk]

What 3D Modes does iz3d support ? Is one of them already usable in a alpha or beta in Windows 10 with a RTX 3000 ?

[Bo3b]

Originally posted by VR-Punk:

i tested assassins creed valhalla in SuperDepth3D_VR+ with Companion App and even if i tried all AA and Sharpening plugins of reshade it looks ugly. Then i tested the SuperDepth3D SBS (without "_VR+") with Vorpx Desktop Viewer and valhalla looks great, i guess this was just half-sbs ! And if Katanga uses SuperDepth3D_VR+ in full-sbs it will look even much better ?

Interesting. Did you try setting the Super3D_Mode=1 in the preprocessor definitions? This will then use color channel compression on a full-SBS images instead of using the half-SBS of the normal shader. Works directly with CompanionApp and should be roughly comparable to a the HelixVision approach if it worked on DX12.

Originally posted by VR-Punk:

What 3D Modes does iz3d support ? Is one of them already usable in a alpha or beta in Windows 10 with a RTX 3000 ?

Output methods are here: https://github.com/bo3b/iZ3D/tree/master/OutputMethods

No current code working on Win10, this is in progress. The AMD output in particular I know is full SBS, I'm not sure about the SBS itself, but connecting this later on to to a full SBS VR display tech will not be the hard part.

[VR-Punk]

I tested assassins creed odyssey in katanga, companion app and vorpx in the same setup.. Katanga is the winner ! The 3d effect (Super3D_Mode=1) is in companion app and katanga so much better as i have ever seen it in vorpx, specially if i set the Divergence/Convergence very high. But the image quality (AA etc.) in companion app is much worse then in katanga, so katanga is the winner. The head tracking in katanga is buggy and let stutter the image and the sharpening option of katanga has to be combined with any AA plugin of reshade, but my daily driver for Z-Buffer 3D in Cinema Mode will be Katanga with SD3D. I'm looking forward to the DX12 support !!!

[Bo3b]

Originally posted by VR-Punk:

I tested assassins creed odyssey in katanga, companion app and vorpx in the same setup.. Katanga is the winner ! The 3d effect (Super3D_Mode=1) is in companion app and katanga so much better as i have ever seen it in vorpx, specially if i set the Divergence/Convergence very high. But the image quality (AA etc.) in companion app is much worse then in katanga, so katanga is the winner. The head tracking in katanga is buggy and let stutter the image and the sharpening option of katanga has to be combined with any AA plugin of reshade, but my daily driver for Z-Buffer 3D in Cinema Mode will be Katanga with SD3D. I'm looking forward to the DX12 support !!!

Awesome, thanks for the update. I tried AC Odyssey as well, and found it to be a pretty compelling experience. Much better than I expected as well.

For the jittery head movement in Katanga- you need to free up some GPU cycles so that Katanga is not starved of cycles in the background. NVidia does a poor job of managing multiple processes, and even though Katanga is a VR app they put it as lowest priority because it's in the background.

Easiest way to lower the load is to use the frame rate limiter built into HelixVision on the Display->VR section.

If the game is running free with no vsync or frame rate limit, it will suck up all available GPU cycles and make Katanga stutter. At a minimum, you want it capped at 90 or your HMD frequency, because anything higher than that will never be seen.

Another good option is to lower the resolution. 1080p is the sweet spot for the game, but it sounds like you might prefer and be able to see the difference of 1440p.

[VR-Punk]

Why does nobody release a 3dfix for Red Dead Redemption 2 and the other big vulkan games in vk3Dvision ? Is Rockstar still the problem or is it just to much work, because vk3Dvision is new driver ?

[VR-Punk]

New experimental Tridef profiles for Mass Effect Legendary and Days Gone (both DX11 and unreal engine and Triple A Blockbuster) with full-sbs could be a good opportunity, because most of the upcoming games are dx12 only.

[VR-Punk]

For the jittery head movement in Katanga i want to use something like "fluidsync" in vorpx. It limits the fps for example to 40fps and upscales it to 80 fps (HMD 80hz). But i don't know how this works in Katanga and steamvr ?

[Torzi]

Originally posted by Bo3b:

Did you try setting the Super3D_Mode=1 in the preprocessor definitions? This will then use color channel compression on a full-SBS images instead of using the half-SBS of the normal shader. Works directly with CompanionApp and should be roughly comparable to a the HelixVision approach if it worked on DX12.

Holy crap... I didn't even realize what was going on there! Instantly got an upgrade for Cyberpunk! I can't believe I missed this... It's not quite the same as the full 2x buffer in HelixVision mode, but it's a pretty remarkable upgrade over Half-SBS. The newest version of SuperDepth also has a new sharpening filter that works really well!

BluSkyKnight is releasing an OpenXR version of the Companion app shortly, which should hopefully help with the stutters and hitches in WMR. The problem there is in the WMR for SteamVR driver... it's not optimized very well, and causes problems (stutters, hitches) once you start to push further than about 90% GPU use. A couple of MS reps have mentioned they're working on it... but I wouldn't count on anything too soon.

Originally posted by VR-Punk:

For the jittery head movement in Katanga i want to use something like "fluidsync" in vorpx. It limits the fps for example to 40fps and upscales it to 80 fps (HMD 80hz). But i don't know how this works in Katanga and steamvr ?

This is the same as Reprojection (motion-smoothing) in WMR. You lock the frame rate of the game to 45FPS while the headset runs at 90Hz, and have reprojection fill in every other frame with an interpolated image. To enable it in Helix, pull up the SteamVR dashboard, and under Video->Per App settings for Katanga, set motion smoothing to Always-on.

You'll still need to limit the game to 45FPS somehow, and monitor GPU use to make sure you're not pushing the GPU too far. How you limit the frames also makes a pretty big difference, as each game engine is a different beast. If one method isn't working (stutters, etc), try another.

[Cer]

Hi Torzi,
so Motion Smooting is same as Reprojection ?
I have a G2 (WMR) and always wondered where I have to set that. Isn't this setting part of the WMR settings? Or will the steam Smoothing setting affect the WMR setting?
Who in the end is doing the interpolation? Steam or WMR ? Or can both be enabled (and do bad double smooting?)

[Bo3b]

I'm not sure how all these motion smoothing components are working, but I think our solution is the logical one. We automatically set the frame rate limiter to half your HMD frequency, in order to avoid starving katanga in the background. But the HMD itself is running at full speed, and doesn't need any interpolation or smoothing, because it's running full speed.

On the HelixVision screen, that will thus show one frame that is the same for a set of two HMD frames. Motion smoothing won't help here, because the screen itself is moving to the correct visual location at full HMD frame rate, and there are no bits to interpolate. Head movements are always 100% accurate as long as katanga is not starved.


I could be misunderstanding something though, so if you think something else is working better, I'm open to suggestions.

As a general rule I personally disable motion smoothing and look for other ways to improve performance.