How many science is enough science ?

[Zipprian]

In my current playthrough, i'm at the 286th turn in normal speed and nation difficulty, so i should be very near the end game. But, despite generating 2884.1 science points per turn with 36 science quarters, i have still 43 tech to research !

So my question is simple : How much science points per turn is enough per era to experienced the full tech tree in one game ?

[Dorok]

Know search points per era is very helpful. I don't know the new numbers but anyway that's for 600 turns.

For 600 turns, 36 science quarters is a lot too much for most plays, and less than 3K in last era is a lot too few, and is still a lot too few for 5th era, and ok but need work before reach end of 4rth era. But for 300 turns I don't know.

it's not that complicated to check if you have a fair enough research rate, even if a bit annoying.

During an era, you browse the research tree, sum all turns of all tech left to search, see the proportion for turns before era number * max turns/6. And you know roughly how late or in advance you are.

For example there's 20 turns left before (era/6) * pace, and the sum of turn for all tech left in era is 40 then your research rate needs be twice better.

I suspect you don't quote you are using almost no search workers, and you probably didn't pick any search culture nor even cultures with research as second specialization (emblematic building strong on research and providing research districts, or some global science bonus even for some non science cultures).

Other major factors are:
- Resources with trade or not, perhaps you do mostly no trade.
- Luxury factories, can be huge but harder to control.
- Alliances, each alliance can provide 5% science increase.
- Obvious, pick all science infrastructures.

One point, you aren't supposed to finish all tech at end of turn limit, now it's more like half of last era tech. But with science focus it's quite doable.

[jonoliveira12]

There is no "enough Science", get as much as you can, without letting it impair your victory condition. Just remember, however, that completing the Tech Tree is a victory, so infinite Science per turn would still not be "enough Science".

[Dorok]

Completing tech tree is no victory, it's just an end condition, you only win by fame, and erase an AI/Player won't remove it from fame score.

For never enough science, I doubt Science cultures can dominate in first 3 eras. Past that I can't say, with AIs it's not necessary in current Early Access sate of the game but I never bothered dig the point.

[Zipprian]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Know search points per era is very helpful. I don't know the new numbers but anyway that's for 600 turns.

For 600 turns, 36 science quarters is a lot too much for most plays, and less than 3K in last era is a lot too few, and is still a lot too few for 5th era, and ok but need work before reach end of 4rth era. But for 300 turns I don't know.

it's not that complicated to check if you have a fair enough research rate, even if a bit annoying.

During an era, you browse the research tree, sum all turns of all tech left to search, see the proportion for turns before era number * max turns/6. And you know roughly how late or in advance you are.

For example there's 20 turns left before (era/6) * pace, and the sum of turn for all tech left in era is 40 then your research rate needs be twice better.

I suspect you don't quote you are using almost no search workers, and you probably didn't pick any search culture nor even cultures with research as second specialization (emblematic building strong on research and providing research districts, or some global science bonus even for some non science cultures).

Other major factors are:
- Resources with trade or not, perhaps you do mostly no trade.
- Luxury factories, can be huge but harder to control.
- Alliances, each alliance can provide 5% science increase.
- Obvious, pick all science infrastructures.

One point, you aren't supposed to finish all tech at end of turn limit, now it's more like half of last era tech. But with science focus it's quite doable.

Thx for the good advices, you were right about the small number of science workers and having too few trade routes.

I am very aware that finishing the tech tree is not mandatory to complete a game but to be honest, i don't care about fame score or even wining a game. I just want to play with all of the game content, not just what's necessary to win. I think beelining through the tech tree brake immersion, i hated it in civ 6 and i hate it in humankind.

Since there's an achievement for finishing the tech tree in a single game i reckon it's supposed to be possible (at least in a previous build of the game)

Anymay thx, i will try an new game with that in mind.

[Dorok]

Remind disable all tech found as a end condition, because it will end the game when you'll have 5 tech to search or something.

For sure it's possible, and quite before turn limit.

[mstolars]

Note that last tech will cost about 92000 at the time you will research it. There are 92 technologies. So starting from turn say 15 you need on average 1 tech per 3 turns.
(92*3+15= 291) Thus at the end you need to generate about 30k of science per turn,
so 10x more than what you have now.
I would say trick is invest in production first (egipt) and play with map where there is an empty continent. BTW. Even if you will not manage to keep 1tech/3turns with era 6 Sweden/japan special ability you can generate 50k science / turn.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by mstolars:

Note that last tech will cost about 92000 at the time you will research it. There are 92 technologies. So starting from turn say 15 you need on average 1 tech per 3 turns.
(92*3+15= 291) Thus at the end you need to generate about 30k of science per turn,
so 10x more than what you have now.
I would say trick is invest in production first (egipt) and play with map where there is an empty continent. BTW. Even if you will not manage to keep 1tech/3turns with era 6 Sweden/japan special ability you can generate 50k science / turn.

Woo the numbers are a lot higher than at 600 turns pace. Are you sure? I think there's something wrong in your math.

At best workers will bring 30 science, and I doubt it can be that high. You'll have 6-10 towns let say average of 8, let say 20 science workers still an average, That's less than 5K. Then you need 40 districts producing 1k each or 80 500 each, I doubt it's 300 turns pace numbers, for 600 turns it's totally wrong numbers.

[mstolars]

The only screen shot I have is from game I did not focused too much on science,
and it made just when pollution level increased...
Still city makes 2.8k while if it would sweden or japan with special ability it would do ~9k

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2729746937

[Dorok]

Originally posted by mstolars:

The only screen shot I have is from game I did not focused too much on science,
and it made just when pollution level increased...
Still city makes 2.8k while if it would sweden or japan with special ability it would do ~9k

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2729746937

Ok my numbers are also wrong, this number is end game, too late.

50K Never seen that, and I can't count the number of time I finished the game because of research end.

EDIT:
But anyway it's not the point, the point isn't what max science research you need reach, but the number per era knowing it's progressing.

For example 5-10K for 4rth era, 10-18K for 5th, 18-25K for 6th. It's possible those numbers aren't right anymore, but that's the idea. But what will happen is for last era, you won't finish all tech, still can get some final tech, but it's the default design.

[mstolars]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by mstolars:

The only screen shot I have is from game I did not focused too much on science,
and it made just when pollution level increased...
Still city makes 2.8k while if it would sweden or japan with special ability it would do ~9k

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2729746937

Ok my numbers are also wrong, this number is end game, too late.

50K Never seen that, and I can't count the number of time I finished the game because of research end.

EDIT:
But anyway it's not the point, the point isn't what max science research you need reach, but the number per era knowing it's progressing.

For example 5-10K for 4rth era, 10-18K for 5th, 18-25K for 6th. It's possible those numbers aren't right anymore, but that's the idea. But what will happen is for last era, you won't finish all tech, still can get some final tech, but it's the default design.

The OP comment was that 'despite' generatking 2.8k of sicence... just pointing out that the end goal is about 30k. As for tech/era...
Since one needs 1 tech / 3 turns-> at given moment one aims for current_tech_cost/(3 or 4), 4 assuming that in the late game one manages to catch up with swe/japan

[Dorok]

Originally posted by mstolars:

Originally posted by Dorok:

Ok my numbers are also wrong, this number is end game, too late.

50K Never seen that, and I can't count the number of time I finished the game because of research end.

EDIT:
But anyway it's not the point, the point isn't what max science research you need reach, but the number per era knowing it's progressing.

For example 5-10K for 4rth era, 10-18K for 5th, 18-25K for 6th. It's possible those numbers aren't right anymore, but that's the idea. But what will happen is for last era, you won't finish all tech, still can get some final tech, but it's the default design.

The OP comment was that 'despite' generatking 2.8k of sicence... just pointing out that the end goal is about 30k. As for tech/era...
Since one needs 1 tech / 3 turns-> at given moment one aims for current_tech_cost/(3 or 4), 4 assuming that in the late game one manages to catch up with swe/japan

Ok 30K probably, I reacted only because 50K was looking huge, and you had long math I didn't bother check but quoted I felt them suspicious.

For sticking to an end game value, you are right, in my opinion it's a wrong approach, but it's what OP asked.