Any way to counter Fame?

[Maknoe]

I've played one game so far, and while I'll acknowledge that I'm neither good nor well-versed in the game, how do you have a chance of winning from the bottom of the Fame board?

I finished a 150 Turn game around 3k Fame, with the leader around 7-8k Fame. While I've done some research since then on how to gain Fame, none of it seems nearly enough to beat a high Fame civilization that's already miles ahead of you. Sure there are plenty of ways for any player to end a game. But if you're at the bottom of the Fame list in the early-mid game and the leaders far outpace you, how do you counter or stop them from winning when you yourself can't catch up?

Conceptually, I like the Fame system, it's interesting. But after playing a game, I feel like if I'm at the bottom of the Fame list then there's nothing I can do and I've already lost.

[Astasia]

Go to war and wipe them out?

After a few games of playing and figuring out the mechanics it's generally going to be rare for the AIs to compete with you for fame. You have to start on it early game, stick around in the ancient era and get a few extra stars, repeat as needed to get a strong lead. It's not something you can catch up on later if you've been skipping too many early stars, but this is generally a mistake you only make once. My first game went pretty similar to yours and I was way down in 4th out of 6 by the last turn, I've been fame leader every game since even after upping the difficulty a couple times.

[Matthew]

Once you realize the entire point of the game is fame, not to just get to the end, it is much more manageable. The different fame stars have set amounts per era, so it is pretty easy to calculate how much of something you need to get points.

That said, you also get to go ham on fame stars when you reach the last era, so if you are just overall in a dominant position you can start racking up a lot of fame and catch up... to a point.

There is no Civ 5 diplo victory option where you can be dead last but meet some arbitrary condition at the end turn to automatically win.

[Maknoe]

Originally posted by Astasia:

Go to war and wipe them out?...

Unless I'm misunderstanding something (which right now, I really hope I am), wiping them out doesn't do anything. From what I understand, you never lose Fame, you don't get any bonus Fame for triggering End-Game conditions, and being eliminated and wiped from the game doesn't take you off the Fame board.

As I understand it, if I'm far enough behind the leader, I could literally wipe out and eliminate every other player in the game, and still lose. It's easy enough to say "Get good and keep your Fame relevant early", but is there literally nothing you can do beyond that? If someone gets a great start and snowballs into the mid and late game, and I've gotten a trash start and am struggling the whole time, is that basically game-over already?

[Maknoe]

Originally posted by Matthew:

Once you realize the entire point of the game is fame, not to just get to the end, it is much more manageable. The different fame stars have set amounts per era, so it is pretty easy to calculate how much of something you need to get points.

That said, you also get to go ham on fame stars when you reach the last era, so if you are just overall in a dominant position you can start racking up a lot of fame and catch up... to a point.

There is no Civ 5 diplo victory option where you can be dead last but meet some arbitrary condition at the end turn to automatically win.

Regarding 'going ham on Fame stars in the last era', doesn't that also apply for everyone else? In my game, I was significantly behind the curve on Fame and behind on Eras, but wouldn't that mean that the top of the leaderboard would then be in the final era and rack up even more Fame? Basically them snowballing pretty significantly with no way to stop them?

[Maknoe]

I am new to the mechanics and still learning, and I get that the game is about achieving and maintaining Fame, and that that will get a lot easier with time.

But if I'm playing against AI or other players, and I'm just behind, is there anything I can do to really catch up or otherwise stop them?

[mk11]

Originally posted by Maknoe:

I am new to the mechanics and still learning, and I get that the game is about achieving and maintaining Fame, and that that will get a lot easier with time.

But if I'm playing against AI or other players, and I'm just behind, is there anything I can do to really catch up or otherwise stop them?

There are some techs in the last era that give a few hundred fame just for researching them.
So if you can (a) eliminate a competitor so they do not get more fame and (b) research those techs and (c) get as many stars as possible in the last era you can catch up. Whether you can reach the top position rather depends how badly you did earlier.

There are also a few deeds that may still be possible - e.g. controlling a continent.

[wildmick]

simple answer, don't advance to the next era when you get 7 stars.. aim for 4 sets of 3 stars, and if u happen to get stars in the other 3 catagories.. bonus..

I made that mistake in the first game and came 3rd.. grr.. next game i won with 15k fame vs 7k @ 2nd place. (600 turn game).

Its just a shame there isn't a hall of records..

[Matthew]

Yes, it applies to everyone else. If you are still far behind in everything, it doesn't help much. It is more of a "if you don't have the lead by mid-game, that doesn't mean you've already lost" kind of thing.

So combining advice here: If someone is getting too far ahead on fame and you bully them a bit, remove a lot of their land and such, they still have their fame. But if your nation is in a better overall spot, you will start getting a lot more fame and eventually overtake them once you reach some later era things.

In your case, it is more of learning basic mechanics. Being dead last just means you didn't know what you were doing. Which is expected, it was your first game.

What Astasia alluded to was you can opt to stay in an era longer to get more fame stars before moving on. You get progressively more fame when getting the same category a 2nd or 3rd time. And you also can get more than 7 fame stars.

Getting 1 fame star in each category is the quickest way through the eras, but it also gives you the least amount of fame possible.

[Maknoe]

This has genuinely helped a lot. Thanks all <3

[Damedius]

I think a big problem is the fame system isn't balanced. Some are far easier to achieve than others.

So for instance if you pick an expansionist culture before you get the civic that allows you to use money instead of influence, you have effectively tanked your fame gain for that era.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by Maknoe:

If someone gets a great start and snowballs into the mid and late game, and I've gotten a trash start and am struggling the whole time, is that basically game-over already?

That is more or less always the case in these games. There are no catch-up mechanics, the early game is often the most important stage as it creates the foundation for your snowball (or lack thereof). If you recognize you have a bad start there are actions you can take early on, like going to war with somebody who had a better start and taking their stuff and using that to snowball yourself. If you just sit on a bad start and don't take any drastic actions to overcome it until the final stretch of the game, well then you are usually out of luck.

Originally posted by Maknoe:

Regarding 'going ham on Fame stars in the last era', doesn't that also apply for everyone else?

Not if you wiped them out.