Cancel button on forced surrender grayed out.

[习包子's General Smegma]

I have a lot of war support, but my opponent has 0. I am still forced to accept his surrender?
This is not logical. I don't want him to surrender, I want him to die.
The surrendering opponent is also demanding reparation, which is more dumber. I am the winner, I dictate the terms of peace or the war goes on until he is willing to accept my terms.

This mechanics is broken by design.

[Brakiros]

The mechanic is not broken by design, it is an irritating mechanic but it's not broken.

[Seedy]

Originally posted by purple I ♥ Negev:

I have a lot of war support, but my opponent has 0. I am still forced to accept his surrender?
This is not logical. I don't want him to surrender, I want him to die.
The surrendering opponent is also demanding reparation, which is more dumber. I am the winner, I dictate the terms of peace or the war goes on until he is willing to accept my terms.

This mechanics is broken by design.

The mechanics are working as designed, and not broken.

The war is over when one side runs out of war support. You get to [mostly] pick what the other side gives, and spend your remaining war support, the reparations are you paying for additional stuff.
If you want to be a bloodthirsty psychopath, there are probably better games for you to try.
In THIS game wars end when one side runs out of war support.

The stronger side can lose, if you don't heed the rules; if YOU run out of war support the other side wins, even if you "had them beat" and were just trashing stuff.

[习包子's General Smegma]

The war is over when one side runs out of war support. You get to [mostly] pick what the other side gives, and spend your remaining war support,

Makes no sense... I don't want his surrender. I want the war to go on. It's not logical and very unrealistic.

the reparations are you paying for additional stuff.

I am the winner... I dictate the terms or the war goes on.
Or are the alied forces paying germany reparation? It's the other way around.

If you want to be a bloodthirsty psychopath, there are probably better games for you to try.
In THIS game wars end when one side runs out of war support.

Bad design. Broken mechanics.
And if you give me the money I payed for this game, I will stop complaining about this game.

The stronger side can lose, if you don't heed the rules; if YOU run out of war support the other side wins, even if you "had them beat" and were just trashing stuff.

Did you read what I wrote? I have a lot of war support. I won, but still I have to accept his surrender which I don't want to. It's not logical, It's broken.

[Brakiros]

Originally posted by purple I ♥ Negev:

The war is over when one side runs out of war support. You get to [mostly] pick what the other side gives, and spend your remaining war support,

Makes no sense... I don't want his surrender. I want the war to go on. It's not logical and very unrealistic.

the reparations are you paying for additional stuff.

I am the winner... I dictate the terms or the war goes on.
Or are the alied forces paying germany reparation? It's the other way around.

If you want to be a bloodthirsty psychopath, there are probably better games for you to try.
In THIS game wars end when one side runs out of war support.

Bad design. Broken mechanics.
And if you give me the money I payed for this game, I will stop complaining about this game.

The stronger side can lose, if you don't heed the rules; if YOU run out of war support the other side wins, even if you "had them beat" and were just trashing stuff.

Did you read what I wrote? I have a lot of war support. I won, but still I have to accept his surrender which I don't want to. It's not logical, It's broken.

The mechanics might be rough and a little awkward but no they're not broken. And no you don't dictate all the terms for winning the war, you only get to take based on the warscore you have.

[习包子's General Smegma]

But I can't decline the surrender either. That should be possible.

[Brakiros]

Originally posted by purple I ♥ Negev:

But I can't decline the surrender either. That should be possible.

Yeah unfortunately with this mechanic it's the forced end to the war its the same as the Paradox systems

[习包子's General Smegma]

The mechanics in Stellaris is way better. In every war you have 3 options: total win, white peace and surrender. White peace can be forced too, but not abruptly. There is a countdown between the end of "war support" and the actual white peace. During this time you can actually decline the surrender. That way you have time to tweak your demands as in which systems you want to claim. Or you can also force your opponent to fully surrender to all your claims/demands.

[VoiD]

The war mechanics is one of the best things about the game.

It works in a more logical way, and less like an arcadey game where millions of people just stand by and allow their dictators to play genocide in every war.

Originally posted by purple I ♥ Negev:

The mechanics in Stellaris is way better. In every war you have 3 options: total win, white peace and surrender. White peace can be forced too, but not abruptly. There is a countdown between the end of "war support" and the actual white peace. During this time you can actually decline the surrender. That way you have time to tweak your demands as in which systems you want to claim. Or you can also force your opponent to fully surrender to all your claims/demands.

In stellaris they use a terrible system pretty much every player dislikes and wants an overhaul where losing ships pumps up your exhaustion by massive numbers, so using a corvette spam, for example, is a terrible idea, even if you win battles you still get forced out of wars very quickly.

And still, you're also forced to end wars early, you don't take everything you've occupied, only the things you had claims on, unless you're playing an alien genocidal species that goes on existential wars every time.

[Bridger]

People who think this is "unrealistic" need to read some history. The vast majority of wars between realms throughout history end with some territory or gold being given from one to the other (or sometimes a pledge of fealty in the example of a vassal, satrap, client state, etc.). Only a minority end with the outright destruction of one empire by another.

If you want to fully defeat a large empire, you will have to do it piece by piece (take 2-3 territories each war until you can vassalize them or destroy them outright). This isn't hard, it merely requires a bit of patience.

[习包子's General Smegma]

Originally posted by VoiD:

And still, you're also forced to end wars early, you don't take everything you've occupied, only the things you had claims on, unless you're playing an alien genocidal species that goes on existential wars every time.

When the exhaustion is 100% you have a countdown that leaves you a lot of time to still force a full win, instead of the white peace. White peace in Stellaris gives you and your opponent some of the systems you or your oppenent occupied and have claims on. Full win only gives you all the systems you have occupied and claims on.
When the countdown starts, you can still start claiming the system you have occupied, but haven't claimed yet.
So that makes a lot of difference. How the war exhaustion is gained though... You are right.. That part is a mess... But I was actually just refering about how wars are ended.

In Humankind it's abrupt. You can't just cancel it. You can't force a full win.
The fix is actually easy. Give 10 rounds between total lose of war support and the forced surrender. That way there is still time to crush the opponent or gather more war support to be able to demand more.

[PhamTrinli]

Gotta say I hate games that don't at least give you the option to choose total annihilation

Stellaris at least has the "determined exterminator" race pick so you can completely obliterate your enemies from orbit

If my enemies came to me begging for peace and offered me some chamomile tea, I would force it down their wind pipe and drown them with it. They're called "enemy" for a reason.

[习包子's General Smegma]

Originally posted by Bridger:

People who think this is "unrealistic" need to read some history. The vast majority of wars between realms throughout history end with some territory or gold being given from one to the other (or sometimes a pledge of fealty in the example of a vassal, satrap, client state, etc.). Only a minority end with the outright destruction of one empire by another.

If you want to fully defeat a large empire, you will have to do it piece by piece (take 2-3 territories each war until you can vassalize them or destroy them outright). This isn't hard, it merely requires a bit of patience.

Yeah but you agree that the winner can set the terms of the surrender right? And surrenders can be declined too. So yap.. It's unrealistic.

[Bridger]

Originally posted by purple I ♥ Negev:

Yeah but you agree that the winner can set the terms of the surrender right? And surrenders can be declined too. So yap.. It's unrealistic.

Yes, and you set the terms of the surrender when you start the war (what your Demands are). If you win it really well (have lots of war support left at the end) then you can often get extra stuff beyond just your demands.

[习包子's General Smegma]

Originally posted by Bridger:

Originally posted by purple I ♥ Negev:

Yeah but you agree that the winner can set the terms of the surrender right? And surrenders can be declined too. So yap.. It's unrealistic.

Yes, and you set the terms of the surrender when you start the war (what your Demands are). If you win it really well (have lots of war support left at the end) then you can often get extra stuff beyond just your demands.

That only applies to proper war declaration. The romans did not send a letter with a war declaration to all civs in europe before they invade.

[Blast Hardcheese]

The entire schema is a filthy Hefty bag so full of BS it stinks on Io. Not one of these arguments regarding "Real Life War Weariness... uhhh, you know... like Vietnam or Afghanistan..." means a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing here.

The AI cheats at it. Cheats, cheats, cheats, cheats, cheats.

If you kick its ass fast, the territories you went to war over are somehow worth exactly one more of the marvelous, magical, musical, mythical "War Points" (which of course we don't get to see what goes into calculating) than you "scored" in the war.

Exactly. One. More. Point. Every. Single. Time. Cue the failhorns.

Uh-huh -- real reflective of the real world, there.

If you kick its ass *slow*, when the AI finally realizes you're going to beat it good and hard, it starts vomiting false "Voluntary Surrenders" in your face, turn after turn, that offer exactly NOTHING you went to war over in the first place, plus money it gets to pull out of a far southern orifice anyway. *YOU* don't *GET* to pick any of the terms of THAT surrender. And, of course, when you tell 'em where to shove their BS "Surrender", they magically get, wait for it, MORE WAR SUPPORT. Each and every turn. For being "feisty", I guess. You get nothing. You lose. Good day, sir.

Did I mention that the AI actually GAINS War Support when you ransack an Outpost / Admin center? Gains it. TEN of it, in fact. Seriously?

The fourth nail in the coffin where this ridiculous fustercluck of a game "mechanic" belongs is that, when the first two BS tricks fail, the AI will absolutely, unequivocally, without batting a digital eyelash, simply pull War Support out of its virtual ass between turns. Just... makes it up.

"Let's see -- turn 368 -- their war support is 9, and they're losing 8 per turn. I'd better double-check this, 'cause I'm running a bit low myself here... Nope, 9 Support remaining, losing 8 per turn, ongoing. Okay, looks like we've got this. End Turn. No RNJeezus events that might change anything, good... Turn 369 -- let's check... wait, what? ELEVEN? Where the felchitty **** did she get THAT from?"

I'm not making this up. It's literally happening in my current game right now. All three cheats, one after the other.

You can bleat and bloviate about "simulating reality and 'real-life War Weariness' all you like. This thing's a filthy, foul, scurrilous dirty cheater and it reflects very, very badly on the game.