When should I create a second city instead of expanding?

[I am Karl, King of Ducks]

I was wondering, when i got my capital with 2-3 attached territory, what is the benefices to transform an outpost that is further away from my capital to transform into a city and start to attach other territory to it? Shouldn't I attach everything to the capital? Or is it because in the end, it's going to cost too many influence if it's one big city ?

[Infern]

It depends on your build. If you are doing the 1 city challenge for the achievement. Don't build a second city.

However, you should build 3 cities as soon as you can. Reason: More cities mean more buildings which means faster era score. (Since if you go 1 over the cap it doesn't actually matter as much as it is just -10 influence which can be negated by the Mountains and Main plaza influence civic)

[Oaks]

More cities = more production ques. A single city, no matter how productive, can only create a single thing per turn ( not counting buyout)
Better to have multiple cities so more can be produced.

[Matthew]

One big city isn't that good. It costs a ton of influence and each district you build increases the cost of the next district. This means 12 districts in 1 city costs more production than 6 districts in 2 cities. You just get more districts overall with more cities.

You also get more influence with additional cities. Both from the flat increase from buildings, but also population gives influence and you will grow more people across many cities than trying to grow them in 1 city.

[I am Karl, King of Ducks]

thanks a lot guys for the kind responses!

One other thing since we are at it, when barbarian are creating a city, is there a difference between conquering it and building a new city or getting it with influence even if it take more turns? Also, is there a way to destroy the city or should I relocate using influence (i think? or maybe it's just with an outpost, i dont remember)

[Dorok]

Well, i don't get other posts, build second city asap isn't looking the option to spread some more with outposts before build a second town or even attach outpost to a town.

For independent tribes, attack their town and win the combat make the town your own, it's faster but you need the firepower. You can't get them with influence but with briding (gold and/or influence points) and then assimilate them. The second method doesn't need military power, the brutal method can allow go faster than an AI going either attack the independent or assimilate them.

In both case it seems not change what you get at final.

[Comrade Pickles]

Originally posted by I am Karl, King of Ducks:

I was wondering, when i got my capital with 2-3 attached territory, what is the benefices to transform an outpost that is further away from my capital to transform into a city and start to attach other territory to it? Shouldn't I attach everything to the capital? Or is it because in the end, it's going to cost too many influence if it's one big city ?

I've played entire games with only one mega city. Once you get the civic that allows you to expand with coin instead of influence you can snowball the entire continent.

[Thineboot]

Originally posted by Oaks:

[...] A single city, no matter how productive, can only create a single thing per turn ( not counting buyout) [...]

That part is wrong: https://i.postimg.cc/Cxc5810X/image-2021-09-06-172530.png
Same goes for Districts, Infrastructures, or any combination.

[Oaks]

Originally posted by Thineboot:

Originally posted by Oaks:

[...] A single city, no matter how productive, can only create a single thing per turn ( not counting buyout) [...]

That part is wrong: https://i.postimg.cc/Cxc5810X/image-2021-09-06-172530.png
Same goes for Districts, Infrastructures, or any combination.

Oh snap, did not know about that. Is that just something I overlooked or how does that work?

[jonnin]

I tend to delay my second and third city until the neutrals pop up. Then I capture or buy them out. Capture is totally free city, but buy out has merits too you get 4-8 unit army with it at a fairly reasonable cost. But you want as many cities as you can run in the territory you can claim. For the first 1/2 the game your city cap + 1 is a good number to run. The second half you can run many more over cap due to high influence production.

[Matthew]

^
On that note, if an independent city spawns and you immediately attack it that turn or after, it won't have any garrison yet and you will automatically just claim it without any battle.

[BLACKcOPstRIPPa]

Personally my second city is my second outpost, I make one make it capital, make a second and thats my second city period.
Than later I add on outposts etc, not normally more than 2 each sometimes just 1 depending on map type and how much land and influence I have to spend.

[Jimib4158]

1.more districts without more disorder.
2.More internal buildings like bank ,library etc
3. more pop

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Oaks:

Originally posted by Thineboot:

That part is wrong: https://i.postimg.cc/Cxc5810X/image-2021-09-06-172530.png
Same goes for Districts, Infrastructures, or any combination.

Oh snap, did not know about that. Is that just something I overlooked or how does that work?

It'e easy to overlook. I noticed last week that I could queue up a number of improvements later in the game and the interface told me that another would still take 1 turn. So I added them to the queue and voila, I got them all in one turn. It didn't happen every single time but you can definitely get two or more early improvements if your city's production is through the roof as it can be if you focus it that way. And I do :D

I think what the OP is addressing though is that cities have the one queue and you can't have one city working on districts while its barracks produce and train soldiers or its factories produce armour units in tandem. 'WH40K Gladius' does this and I wonder why more games don't do it this way.

[Dorok]

The non parallel thing is an illusion, at end it's still 1000 production per turn and the 1000 has more choice than the 2*500 like build in 1 turn 1 stuff with 1000 cost.

Still in my last start I used that 2 town approach, well with many outpost already build. You can take some risk by building outpost not joint to your first town and other outposts, the idea is start an outpost base further than first town. Well I need use this more to see how it works in general, I was probably a bit lucky, between two AIs, both military, had almost the two towns separated. I destroyed an outpost of an AIs later occupied by an independent. And blocked the second AIs to let enough space for second town but it was short and involving a bit of aggressiveness so win some combats.

It's like first town, once more, I started town in a coastal territory but it's looking like a very bad idea for outpost builds cost. I mean that I have many troubles with start and need certainly improve many aspects, and two towns faster could be one of those points, and avoid coast perhaps another of those points.

[Thineboot]

Originally posted by The Doctor:

Originally posted by Oaks:

Oh snap, did not know about that. Is that just something I overlooked or how does that work?

It'e easy to overlook. I noticed last week that I could queue up a number of improvements later in the game and the interface told me that another would still take 1 turn. So I added them to the queue and voila, I got them all in one turn. It didn't happen every single time but you can definitely get two or more early improvements if your city's production is through the roof as it can be if you focus it that way. And I do :D

I think what the OP is addressing though is that cities have the one queue and you can't have one city working on districts while its barracks produce and train soldiers or its factories produce armour units in tandem. 'WH40K Gladius' does this and I wonder why more games don't do it this way.

Just tested Districts + Infrastructures + Units and it worked, too. Besides that, Settlers are also military units. You may not use them for fighting but they leave the queue well trained with two stars.

Other than science the industry surplus isn't spend just by adding anything to the queue but is used during the end turn phase.

Shared projects seem to work a bit differently. And clearing ruins, well, seems only worth before the arrival of Settlers.