I am basically losing a war that I am winning.

[TheGameHoarder]

So as I will show in the prints, I have conquered the neighbor's capital, occupying one of his outposts, ransacking his other, and sieging his last city. Now I really want his old capital, thing is that even such a full and total defeat of him, basically the game decided that his war support running to 0, he had enough of it, so now I am forced by the game to take "the decision" of ending the war (No I can not go to the next turn unless I choose this).

get this I can basically, with my current war score, get only an outpost that basically was goin to be ransacked in one turn from now.

Wow, how can you be winning a war and lose so bad at the same time? Basically the game mechanics are makin me feel as if I'm being cheated out of a beautiful victory.

Please anyone share your mind on this, how does this make sense? If it does I might just overlook it, but as it stands it sounds bunkers.

he has no settlements, nothing left outside my army's occupation, siege and ransacking. How is it normal that in such a case that sounds a lot like total victory, I'm supposed to settle for just an outpost that I'd be ransacking and turning into dust within a turn from this.

It makes no bloody sense!

EDIT: The Game Shows My Crest "Forcing Surrender" on Their Crest
...but
Guess they forgot to show another crest with Humankind the Game "Forcing Surrender" on My Crest.

https://ibb.co/8MjW4FJ
https://ibb.co/b7xttZQ
https://ibb.co/bNTt7Hd

[jonoliveira12]

You should never Ransack (one of the reasons why Goths are bad), as taht only increases ENEMY War Support, and leads to you losing.

To win Wars, you just capture Cities and defeat Armies, NO OTHER ACTION!

It is true that the War Support system is borked.

[TheGameHoarder]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

You should never Ransack (one of the reasons why Goths are bad), as taht only increases ENEMY War Support, and leads to you losing.

To win Wars, you just capture Cities and defeat Armies, NO OTHER ACTION!

It is true that the War Support system is borked.

I actually never managed to ransack it, it would had been ransacked within a turn. If it happened earlier maybe they wouldn't had 0 War Support and maybe this thing could have dragged on a little... hmm actually I think you just might of made some sense of the mechanics to me.

Fine I have only 36 war support, maybe if I had more I could had canceled and have it dragged longer to take more from them.

Anyway love this game.

[leonardonabreu]

If you had more war support the war would still end with his surrender, but you would have more "points" to claim cities/territories or their vassalage.
The claims are cheaper if you had demands over grievances prior to the war declaration.

Seems like your war support was falling, if you dragged on the war you could end up losing it yourself.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by TheGameHoarder:

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

You should never Ransack (one of the reasons why Goths are bad), as taht only increases ENEMY War Support, and leads to you losing.

To win Wars, you just capture Cities and defeat Armies, NO OTHER ACTION!

It is true that the War Support system is borked.

I actually never managed to ransack it, it would had been ransacked within a turn. If it happened earlier maybe they wouldn't had 0 War Support and maybe this thing could have dragged on a little... hmm actually I think you just might of made some sense of the mechanics to me.

Fine I have only 36 war support, maybe if I had more I could had canceled and have it dragged longer to take more from them.

Anyway love this game.

If you initiated the War, then you are forced to capture Citiesuntil the enemy surrenders, otherwise he will win the War.

Happened to me once, when playing Egyptians, due to Aging Up late, the Celts attacked me and took most of my territory, but because I beat Army after Army that tried to besiege my Capital, I won and got all the Territories back, aswell as a massive amount of Coin.

If this was realistic, the Celts would have won, because I was confined to my Capital and surrounding land, and could only fight open field against smaller forces.

However, I won out the game at the end, propelled by the slaughter I carried out on the enemy forces, and the Era Stars it gave me.

War in this game, is not very logically implemented.

[Astasia]

You need to keep your warscore maxed, and you need to start the war with a lot of demands, each demand you have when you declare war is basically added to your surrender deal for free. Stack your influence so that their territories fall into your influence and then you can demand they give you those territories, or do the same with religion.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by leonardonabreu:

If you had more war support the war would still end with his surrender, but you would have more "points" to claim cities/territories or their vassalage.
The claims are cheaper if you had demands over grievances prior to the war declaration.

True, but then it forces you to take those claims, and you pay for it in War Support, wether you actually want them or not.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by Astasia:

You need to keep your warscore maxed, and you need to start the war with a lot of demands, each demand you have when you declare war is basically added to your surrender deal for free. Stack your influence so that their territories fall into your influence and then you can demand they give you those territories, or do the same with religion.

It is not free, those demands will take War Support score, at the end of the conflict.

[jonnin]

the war support system is weird, but it works reasonably once you get it. There are 3 things you want to do to max your taking in a war..
- harass weak units. The ones that have 0 chance of even killing 1 unit in your stack will run away, giving 5 support.
- kill troops. Every battle is 8 support
- capture towns.

you want to avoid letting them do the above to you. These actions drive their support to zero and you get points to spend on your spoils, which are usually enough to take at least 2 cities from them or a city and many territories around it.

[Astasia]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by Astasia:

You need to keep your warscore maxed, and you need to start the war with a lot of demands, each demand you have when you declare war is basically added to your surrender deal for free. Stack your influence so that their territories fall into your influence and then you can demand they give you those territories, or do the same with religion.

It is not free, those demands will take War Support score, at the end of the conflict.

You get extra war support score to cover the cost of those demands though, so the end result is it's free.

[jonoliveira12]

To be honest, they should make so that the side that wins a War, gets Fame, the more Fame the more advanced in Era the opponent is.

It is historically accurate too. We know lot's of people because they won military conflicts, like Alexander, Atilla, Ghengis, Sun Tzu, Nader Sha, Afonso Henriques, Edward Longshanks...

History is basically a cycle of power grabs by Warfare, which is why it is so choc full of conflict.

Winning Wars should give Fame, which would make Militarist cultures more viable, as they really are not, right now, when compared to Production or Merchant cultures.

[AOM]

I'm not sure if this happened in your case, but I've noticed the text in the surrender terms screen is sometimes not entirely clear, and this can be confusing. I had a case where I had taken an AI capitol. He lost all war support and the surrender terms I was forced to accept said the AI would get this city back. However, after I clicked to accept the terms, I retained the city.

[jonoliveira12]

Originally posted by AOM:

I'm not sure if this happened in your case, but I've noticed the text in the surrender terms screen is sometimes not entirely clear, and this can be confusing. I had a case where I had taken an AI capitol. He lost all war support and the surrender terms I was forced to accept said the AI would get this city back. However, after I clicked to accept the terms, I retained the city.

That is probably a bug. If the AI was supposed to get the City back, but you kept it, something went wrong on a technical level.

[TheGameHoarder]

Originally posted by jonnin:

the war support system is weird, but it works reasonably once you get it. There are 3 things you want to do to max your taking in a war..
- harass weak units. The ones that have 0 chance of even killing 1 unit in your stack will run away, giving 5 support.
- kill troops. Every battle is 8 support
- capture towns.

you want to avoid letting them do the above to you. These actions drive their support to zero and you get points to spend on your spoils, which are usually enough to take at least 2 cities from them or a city and many territories around it.

Ye... I remember in the beta, I couldn't get the thing with the flag, was losing all the battles and made no sense, but actually the system is really good, makes the attacker an attacker and the defender a defender. I love that implementation. Maybe with time I'll get to understands this, with the war support better and love it too. Right now, though, damn like I said in the title >))

But...

To be fair, hell, I had no war support, no intention to attack them, but still I should get something more, I mean that capital, damn really wanted it.

[AOM]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

Originally posted by AOM:

I'm not sure if this happened in your case, but I've noticed the text in the surrender terms screen is sometimes not entirely clear, and this can be confusing. I had a case where I had taken an AI capitol. He lost all war support and the surrender terms I was forced to accept said the AI would get this city back. However, after I clicked to accept the terms, I retained the city.

That is probably a bug. If the AI was supposed to get the City back, but you kept it, something went wrong on a technical level.

No, I think the text is written in a confusing manner. Game-wise, it was appropriate for me to keep the city, and I was surprised when the surrender terms said I would not.

[G4M5T3R]

Originally posted by jonoliveira12:

It is not free, those demands will take War Support score, at the end of the conflict.

Mouse over the WarScore. The tooltip that appears reads: "The War Score defines what reparations the Winner is allowed to obtain at the end of the conflict. It is computed from the Winners War Support at the beginning and end of a war, plus bonus points for pre-existing Demands and Occupied Enemy Cities."

Demands cost points but they also earn them.