Pollution = free fame

[Heliona]

Someone in my game just won 50 fame for being the biggest polluter
Explain??

[chaney]

So ... nobody else is troubled by the game mechanic that rewards a player for spamming out polluting units that are already strong plays? Now there is some penalty to the player for local pollution but the choice still seems to encourage yet another snowball victory strategy. The main reason 4X games get dull toward the end is the uncatchable snowball mechanics, so would it not improve the late game to put more curbs on this kind of snowball?!?

I am aware that this is not a pat point of view and this example does provide one way to strike from behind the leader, but it seems not particularly well suited to that either.

I still don't buy the value of fame on a dead planet.

If balanced with some points for mitigation it would be at least a little better.

What ideas do people have for the game for future tech to work against a player seeking to crash the game through pollution? Cutting carbon to zero isn't enough, but sequestration is already possible to go negative at a planet level, but it would cost money/power. If the game had a UN like mechanism I'd expect a global carbon tax to be possible. Space based parasol project would appeal to some. Let's give the devs some fodder to round out what is currently a very inelegant feature.

[RedRapture]

Publicado originalmente por chaney:

So ... nobody else is troubled by the game mechanic that rewards a player for spamming out polluting units that are already strong plays? Now there is some penalty to the player for local pollution but the choice still seems to encourage yet another snowball victory strategy. The main reason 4X games get dull toward the end is the uncatchable snowball mechanics, so would it not improve the late game to put more curbs on this kind of snowball?!?

I am aware that this is not a pat point of view and this example does provide one way to strike from behind the leader, but it seems not particularly well suited to that either.

I still don't buy the value of fame on a dead planet.

If balanced with some points for mitigation it would be at least a little better.

What ideas do people have for the game for future tech to work against a player seeking to crash the game through pollution? Cutting carbon to zero isn't enough, but sequestration is already possible to go negative at a planet level, but it would cost money/power. If the game had a UN like mechanism I'd expect a global carbon tax to be possible. Space based parasol project would appeal to some. Let's give the devs some fodder to round out what is currently a very inelegant feature.

Devs are not going to round this out anytime soon, if at all. They have an event in place already that places all the fault of the world's climate changing on your one nation, changing all mid-map tiles going all the way to the temperate zone into desert tiles if you pick a certain option, rather than having it be a global thing.

Just download the mod that disables the pollution mechanic entirely.

[AmesNFire]

Publicado originalmente por chaney:

So ... nobody else is troubled by the game mechanic that rewards a player for spamming out polluting units that are already strong plays?
Now there is some penalty to the player for local pollution but the choice still seems to encourage yet another snowball victory strategy. The main reason 4X games get dull toward the end is the uncatchable snowball mechanics, so would it not improve the late game to put more curbs on this kind of snowball?!?

I still don't buy the value of fame on a dead planet.

50 Fame points is less than you get from the any of the Neolithic stars.

Not what I would consider a gamebreaking amount, although I do agree it seems weird to provide fame for such a thing. If everyone is dead it should just be a 'Everybody Lost' end.

Publicado originalmente por chaney:

What ideas do people have for the game for future tech to work against a player seeking to crash the game through pollution? Cutting carbon to zero isn't enough, but sequestration is already possible to go negative at a planet level, but it would cost money/power.
If the game had a UN like mechanism I'd expect a global carbon tax to be possible. Space based parasol project would appeal to some.
Let's give the devs some fodder to round out what is currently a very inelegant feature.

Well currently we have forms of renewable and nuclear energy which can help deal with the pollution in the game. Outside of people who hyperfocus on production it seems that pollution isn't that much of an issue by the time the game turn-limit is reach.

If the devs were to introduce an international council system where players could propose civic requirements, resolve demands without war, etc... A policy to reduce pollution or to restrict how many polluting districts can be built is something I'd expect to be added.

[Spacesuit Spiff]

Publicado originalmente por chaney:

So ... nobody else is troubled by the game mechanic that rewards a player for spamming out polluting units that are already strong plays? Now there is some penalty to the player for local pollution but the choice still seems to encourage yet another snowball victory strategy. The main reason 4X games get dull toward the end is the uncatchable snowball mechanics, so would it not improve the late game to put more curbs on this kind of snowball?!?

I am aware that this is not a pat point of view and this example does provide one way to strike from behind the leader, but it seems not particularly well suited to that either.

I still don't buy the value of fame on a dead planet.

If balanced with some points for mitigation it would be at least a little better.

What ideas do people have for the game for future tech to work against a player seeking to crash the game through pollution? Cutting carbon to zero isn't enough, but sequestration is already possible to go negative at a planet level, but it would cost money/power. If the game had a UN like mechanism I'd expect a global carbon tax to be possible. Space based parasol project would appeal to some. Let's give the devs some fodder to round out what is currently a very inelegant feature.

Given how much else the devs still need to do, this sort of thing ought to just be solved by multiplayer houserules. Everyone agrees that a game ending due to pollution doesn't count as a win. If someone still tries to end the game like that, the rest of the lobby enacts scorched-earth policy on them.