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I agree with you that the game needs a lot of balance tweaks, and in the time I've been playing it, I've seen the devs working on that. For example, back in the Victor dev, if you had the Dutch you could basically buy the game. That isn't the case now. And, whatever the devs don't balance, modders will. They've already indicated they plan to release a tool that will allow people to make their own mods to balance things to their preference.
That and Khmer are trolling with how powerful their unqiue building is and they get an insane unique unit to boot.
Money is trolling with how hard to scales to buy / do things.
The numbers on science feels off without doing something to specialize in it.
Holy Day (+5 faith on holy site) - 1600*(lv+1).
Parade (+5 exp on creating unit) - 1600*(lv+1)
Games (+5 stability) - 1600*(lv+1)
Festival (+2 influence) - 3200*(lv+1)
Trade Fair (+4 money) - 6400*(lv+1)
Symposium (+5 science) - 12800*(lv+1)
So you can't build any of those infinitely. Price scales quickly to become inefficient.
I am also not sure how exactly extra food works but increasing food by 40 (8 Feasts that cost 28800 production or 29 turns with 1000 production per turn) gives 0 effect to growth speed for me when I have enough food to support my population. It was 47% per turn, it remained 47% per turn. There are diminishing returns on food gain to population conversion.
Good production speed is always great especially compared to food production because food production has diminishing returns, but spamming ceremonies doesn't work for long. Good production lets you have higher income in other resources because you can build infrastructure and wonders faster but still it requires districts of other types to be more effective. Just spamming industry (makers district) will leave you bottlenecked with influence (to claim wonders), science (to unlock new things to build), money (to expand much easier instead of using influence).
I can in my next game.
The 30k/300k came from a recent game, standard map standard speed. I don't remember what point in the game that was.
Next game is going to be on large with 2 continents 8 opponents. I wasn't planning on going full gold, but I do like Nubians, so maybe I will go all out on gold just to see what ridiculous numbers I can get.
Very dubious about the feasts, and having a slightly more balanced approach rather than a one dimensional spam could ultimately be stronger in the long run.
Don't really see the point in perfecting early game ultimate strategies on difficulty levels where the Egyptians are guaranteed, as are the best wonders, best expansion, etc, given that on those levels the AI is a walkover anyway even with a very sub optimal strategy.
Skipping farms early is definitely a valid strat, but it will also take about 50 pop off your cities max population by late game which adds up very fast if you are aiming for any of the civs with per pop bonuses.
Hammers are good for sure, but at least in comparison to Civ there are valid reasons and strategies for focusing on other things as well.
On the runs i've made, production focus is hand down the best strategy, food focus there's no point, rushing builds with pops got nerfed to the ground... money focus, hard on the early game, and later down the road it's still expensive as heck to rush the build queue... science only is very strong in the early game to get ahead, but later down the road becomes a fairly useless resource (when you finish the tech tree pretty early in the game)
anyway, i only build farmer quarters when i really need them, but looking at early answers, using hamlets will probably be way better, as you can get both food and production from them, as well getting better district placement for later in the game (dutch and german EQs for example)
I will go over the cultures i have played through
Ancient era is anyone's game
- early science (babylon or zhou with mountains) helps a lot, you don't need research quarters until medieval era if you pick one of them, otherwise you will need to rush them to tech faster. (zhou uu sucks tho)
- egiptians have the pyramids, but i find that they are not a broken civ, the uu is powerful tho
- harappans, you don't that much food, but if you pick them, then you really don't need to get any more food afterwards in the game
- Phoenicia, almost no point unless you want to farm the harbors to later have mad dutch EQ later and you're going for a money game
Classical era
- persians... no point skip, city cap is nice tho
- celts, no point, unless you get them and then you don't need to get food things anymore afterwards
- greeks, no point at this stage, as you have access to the research quarters... (better get industry and build some research instead)
- Carthage, only for the EQ harbor to get extra money with dutchs
- Maya is powerful, but not to the point of being broken
Medieval era
- Khmer is broken, no point in picking other thing, easily get over 700 prod by the end of the era (i usually go for 4 to 5 territories per city)
- Norsemen, only when you really want that naval movement and you're playing on a 30% earth map, but still is not very good, the EQ harbor for the money with the dutch tho
Early modern era
- dutch, for the money game, and if you've picked the water civs before, very easy to get over 10k money per turn if you planned your cities properly
- ming, nice influence, otherwise skip
- mughals, strong contender, beast industrial capital, the EQ is nice enough
Industrial era
- Austro-Hungarians, need stability much? jokes aside, this is a super combo with the soviets afterwards, get your EQ everywhere, and then you can safely spam the soviet one without remorse in contemporary era for massive combat strength advantages, on older cities, easy +80 stability per EQ
- French, no need for more science, skip
- Germans, coking works need good city planning to place them, if you've picked industrial cultures before, no point in taking them anyway
- Italians, another stability producer that's not tied to EQ, also comboes with the soviets
- siamese, easier to get industry than germans, extra money on top to pay for your armies
Contemporary era
- Chinese, money game only
- Soviets, if you picked the austrians or the italians, get this for mad combat strength from EQ, easily get +20 combat strength on units
- Turks, EQ is broken, any tech will only take 1 turn after you put them on your science cities
In all my production focus games, by the contemporary era, i easily have over 2k production in each city, on capital is even crazier...
Show me one person that has struggled to beat the game going industry only?
Most people are saying farmers districts are irrelevant, as is purchasing with gold or food.
I'd rather save gold to buy zones, not waste it on purchasing things that can be built in 1 turn instead.
By the time you are building your 6th district on endless, its over 1000 gold to purchase 1 turn worth of production and that's still in the ancient era. Anyone saying that gold purchasing is valid in this game straight up haven't played it at all.
Is this a joke? Building canals or anything else takes vastly more time than pyramids.
1 makers quarters and pyramids per district early on absolutely is the fastest start to the game, nothing else compares to this and I know since that's all I've been doing. You literally cant even build half as much stuff while wasting crucial early game production on farmers districts.
I can get 8 pyramids up before turn 80 on endless mode which snowballs not only my production but also influence as each pyramid produces 5 inflience. How many of any other district are you managing to build?
Then come back and post the save game, for all to see what you actually did.
No this is not a joke at all, the fact that you think Egyptians are the best production culture (or fastest start, however you are choosing to frame it) early on tells me you are still relatively inexperienced. There is quite a lot to play around with still and many ways to crack this egg, every single yield type can be abused in some capacity or another, for food your aim would be to hit the 1 pop a turn cap asap and then abuse per pop bonuses and city merging.
You have clearly found your preferred strat and a very straight forward way to play, congrats! That is not nearly close to being the full range of things that are op and abusable though. It is a 4X, it is all about exponential gains across the board. If all you have been doing is one of the most obvious strats in the book, then really you have no idea what is the best, what a silly argument.
And whats 1000 Gold? On Endless you can get a Gold income around 1 Million per Turn, maybe even higher. And i can buy everything everywhere in 1 Turn where I need it. You can produce units one by one in every city and must merge them after. I buy a whole army at the most important place in one turn. I can place a City and can instantly full upgrade it.
Nearly any yield can be abused with enough focus. With enough experience and some finished games on highest difficulty you would maybe realize this by yourself.
I literally said I've already compared all the different strats, why don't you try reading that?
In all 4X games, the most important thing is setting up at the start. The stronger your early position, the more you get propelled into an easy win.
The point is you absolutely do not need to FOCUS on making any other yields. You absolutely do get plenty of food, gold and science without needing to build any of their districts for a very long time. Even if you want to build them later, big deal they take 1-2 turns with a production start vs needing to spend 10+ turns to build each thing.
None of the other cultures allow you to setup anywhere close to as fast as you do by stacking every Builder culture. I know this because its literally all that I am trying and comparing currently.
The fact that none of the people arguing against it have even done this amount of testing shows that they don't even have 1% of the 'experience' on the subject as I do.
1000 gold is a lot in the EARLY GAME while you are still trying to expand. 1000 gold is not worth spending for 1 turn of production at that, and I don't believe at any point in the game.
Millions of production laughs at your pointless millions of gold. It works a lot better and doesn't get wasted in conversion.
What part of the fact that neither money nor food convert to production at a 1:1 rate do you fail to understand? Why would I want to make money when it takes more than 10x as much of it to give the equivalent benefit as production?
Neither money nor food are working at all compared to production, everyone that has bothered to actually compare the yields has stated as such. Only people with zero experience are thinking that money or food builds are worth bothering with at all lol.
The first time I did it I did it with a full normal setup, Forward settling the AI and ransacking their ouitposts is childs play, its nothing difficult to pull off a rapid expansion.
I then increased the map size to test just how much I could cheese production only.
It always works given the fact that all that production can then build anything else that you need later. Production only is far from a bad thing in any 4X game, especially in this one given the fact that you do not need to build the quarters for any other stat in the game at all for an extremely long part of the game.