coastal cities

[ishite.svet]

Share your opinion. It seems to me that if a city is based on the coast, it should have some kind of benefit.(+7 food ore gold) Even in civilization, I do not like that there are no bonuses for sea cities.()
and it's very strange when the ocean is near the shore ..

[Chicky Lumps]

Originally posted by PenguinO:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

You can all ready do that with the seafaring Civs emblematic harbors.

I know... but still 1 harbor + special harbor for culture
Did you also see my earlier message?

If there is option to allow unlimited emblematic buildings/harbors, it would open up new strategies for many cultures.

I can understand why there's a 1 emblematic per territory rule so balance is easier, they don't have to worry about designing every emblematic district so that they aren't busted if people make mega clusters with them.
Unlimited emblematic harbors would just mean every coastal tile or every other one would have a harbor. Kinda spammy.

[FoxFox]

Originally posted by PenguinO:

If there is option to allow unlimited emblematic buildings/harbors, it would open up new strategies for many cultures.

Harbours on every tile? That would be weird and look awful. But a way to exploit all ocean tiles would be welcome. If a single harbour could exploit all/more tiles (maybe not early in the game, but the range could be increased with techs), that would mean a significant bonus.

Otherwise a dedicated ocean district like "Fishing grounds" or a coastal land district "Fish market" or something like that would be nice.

[PenguinO]

For weird things :D

Somehow I feel that first special harbor "HEAVEN" looks very epic
the 2nd special harbor "COTTON" also looks very awesome with great bonus
then the 3rd...

What is that thing "Naught" ?!??!
The appearance somehow looks far inferior to those first two and even the standard harbor...

Sad... but I still pick that culture and build it in every game I need sea movement points.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by AOM:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

You can all ready do that with the seafaring Civs emblematic harbors.

Right, but the OP is about buffing cities set on coasts regardless of whether they are a seafaring culture. I agree with the idea that coastal cities should get a little more love than they currently are receiving.

My point is why would you build directly on the coast when its more advantageous to build one tile in. With a harbor you get to exploit tiles that you can't with a land locked city, you get extra gold for adjacent market quarters, that city gets to use sea trade which reduces the cost of the purchased goods, it creates a spawn point for naval units, and if you attach another coastal territory you get to do it all over again in that territory and the infrastructures only have to be built once. That's quite a lot of free stuff for a single tile that would otherwise go to waste.

Another thing that would need to be checked on... Are coastal territories larger than inland territories? If they are, buffing the harbor would be too much additional benefit especially when you are using seafaring civs. I played a game where I went all seafaring once and it was the 2nd largest steam rolling I've done so far in the game, right behind all industry.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by AOM:

Originally posted by Dorok:

OP doesn't saw it the right way.

When you start the game, first city coastal is a bad idea because of outpost cost and range. But later game pick two cities with 4 territories, the coastal city is stronger with extra ports exploiting extra territories for free.

OP isn't seeing anything. The OP is saying that a city settled right on the coast should receive a buff.

And you understood nothing on my explanation, they have a buff, sea free territories, potentially extra resource, and ports, they have no penalty, a land border is much less good, it's a brutal stop.

Town with 3 coastal territories is just much better than inland. The buff is already here, and clearly as OP you can't see it the right way.

[AOM]

Originally posted by Dorok:

Originally posted by AOM:

OP isn't seeing anything. The OP is saying that a city settled right on the coast should receive a buff.

And you understood nothing on my explanation, they have a buff, sea free territories, potentially extra resource, and ports, they have no penalty, a land border is much less good, it's a brutal stop.

Town with 3 coastal territories is just much better than inland. The buff is already here, and clearly as OP you can't see it the right way.

Lol. Nope. There is no buff for placing your city directly on the coast. That is what the OP is talking about.

[Dorok]

Originally posted by AOM:

Originally posted by Dorok:

And you understood nothing on my explanation, they have a buff, sea free territories, potentially extra resource, and ports, they have no penalty, a land border is much less good, it's a brutal stop.

Town with 3 coastal territories is just much better than inland. The buff is already here, and clearly as OP you can't see it the right way.

Lol. Nope. There is no buff for placing your city directly on the coast. That is what the OP is talking about.

You have serious problems with logic.

Let make it simple.

Town with 3 coastal territories = Town with 3 inland territories + 3 harbors + coastal sea tiles exploited.

If you still pretend a coastal town has no leads I'll laugh.

[knighttemplar1960]

Originally posted by AOM:

Originally posted by Dorok:

And you understood nothing on my explanation, they have a buff, sea free territories, potentially extra resource, and ports, they have no penalty, a land border is much less good, it's a brutal stop.

Town with 3 coastal territories is just much better than inland. The buff is already here, and clearly as OP you can't see it the right way.

Lol. Nope. There is no buff for placing your city directly on the coast. That is what the OP is talking about.

Not all coastal towns are right on the coast. The vast majority of them aren't right on the coast. The city center is inland from the coast and either roads or rivers move the goods to and from the harbors or in cities where the rivers are wide and deep enough from further upstream. Think about the 4 largest cities in the USA. All of them are coastal, none of them are on the coast. New York City's goods reach the ocean via the Hudson. Los Angeles' goods reach the coast by road and rail. Chicago's goods travel through 4 of the great lakes, the St. Clair river, lake St. Clair, the Detroit river, the Niagara river, around the falls through the Welland canal, and then out the St. Lawrence river to get to the ocean. Huston's goods travel down the Buffalo Bayou, through Burnet Bay, through San Jacinto Bay, through Tabbs bay, through Trinity Bay, through Galveston Bay, to reach the Gulf of Mexico.

I don't think a city placed directly on the coast should get any kind of buff. In fact, the penalty they suffer for being directly on the coast in the game tends to reflect reality.

[AOM]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Originally posted by AOM:

Lol. Nope. There is no buff for placing your city directly on the coast. That is what the OP is talking about.

Not all coastal towns are right on the coast. The vast majority of them aren't right on the coast. The city center is inland from the coast and either roads or rivers move the goods to and from the harbors or in cities where the rivers are wide and deep enough from further upstream. Think about the 4 largest cities in the USA. All of them are coastal, none of them are on the coast. New York City's goods reach the ocean via the Hudson. Los Angeles' goods reach the coast by road and rail. Chicago's goods travel through 4 of the great lakes, the St. Clair river, lake St. Clair, the Detroit river, the Niagara river, around the falls through the Welland canal, and then out the St. Lawrence river to get to the ocean. Huston's goods travel down the Buffalo Bayou, through Burnet Bay, through San Jacinto Bay, through Tabbs bay, through Trinity Bay, through Galveston Bay, to reach the Gulf of Mexico.

I don't think a city placed directly on the coast should get any kind of buff. In fact, the penalty they suffer for being directly on the coast in the game tends to reflect reality.

Right, but, if you read the two posts following the first, you will notice that isn't what the OP is talking about:

Originally posted by ishite.svet:

Originally posted by VDmitry:

you mean main plaza / admin center?

Yes

Further, I guess at least some of what you imagine a coastal city to be in this game depends on how much land you believe a tile represents. <shrug>

[knighttemplar1960]

The OP wants a bonus for having the city center right on the coast but city centers are all most never on the coast. The harbor, fish monger, warehouses, ship yards, sail makers, are on the coast the rest of the important parts of the city are in land from the coast.

With that being a consideration harbors are usually sighted on some protected cove, bay, inlet etc. to shield the harbor and docked ships from storms and potential pirates.

The Earth's circumference is ~25,000 miles. The maximum width of the Huge game map is 150 hexes which would make a hex 167 miles across. That would make a hex roughly 7.25 million hectares which would make one hex the size of the state of South Carolina. Which would make the entire continental USA about 8 hexes high by 17 hexes wide so perhaps 2 game territories. Clearly not to any kind of scale.

[GoldenTalon]

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

The OP wants a bonus for having the city center right on the coast but city centers are all most never on the coast. The harbor, fish monger, warehouses, ship yards, sail makers, are on the coast the rest of the important parts of the city are in land from the coast.

With that being a consideration harbors are usually sighted on some protected cove, bay, inlet etc. to shield the harbor and docked ships from storms and potential pirates.

The Earth's circumference is ~25,000 miles. The maximum width of the Huge game map is 150 hexes which would make a hex 167 miles across. That would make a hex roughly 7.25 million hectares which would make one hex the size of the state of South Carolina. Which would make the entire continental USA about 8 hexes high by 17 hexes wide so perhaps 2 game territories. Clearly not to any kind of scale.

Well - you have San Francisco, Naples, etc, that are major cities on a coast. Still don't see need for additional bonuses though.

[Dorok]

Not only a port exploits tiles not in town territory, but it allows multiple income that are unique to it. It's bizarre mostly everybody can't see it's a bonus but see sea as a limit.

Pick a town with 3 coastal territories, then replace sea with land, your town is weaker. Land is much better for expansion potential. But that's it. A town with a large coast has easily a lot of expansion and starts on a better base.

Add more bonus to that, not useful there's already the sea cultures even if it's tempered by being a nation topic so one coast town can't justify it.